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Harry Potter and the Water-Born Blade

 
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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Harry Potter and the Water-Born Blade Reply with quote

A bit of explanation, first - this was my entry in last year's National Novel Writer's Month. I made the 50,000 words in one month goal, but it's still very much a work in progress. (It will probably wind up approaching the size of a full-blown novel by the time it's done. At present, I'm about 60 to 80% done with Chapter 17.)
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hikaru
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Copy and paste some of your work into a message for us to bleed on, and we'll see what comes out. Smile
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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Potter and the Water-Born Blade

I


The Headmaster’s Office of Hogwart’s School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, not normally a particularly loud room even at its worst, was unusually silent. The portraits on the walls, remnants of Headmasters and Headmistresses past, were openly staring, shocked by what they had just witnessed, and for once, none of them made any motion to be the first to comment. And so the current holder of that august office, Headmaster Albus Dumbledore, sat, apparently lost in thought and wearing a most uncharacteristic expression of sadness and defeat, the ever-present twinkle in his eyes dimmed.

Finally, he stirred. “Severus, please come and sit.”

A quick counter-charm was muttered and the sallow-faced Potions Master appeared, having dismissed his Disillusionment Charm. With his typical silent movements, he glided to the chair so recently, and dramatically, vacated by the school’s most famous student. “Obviously, I received your request for my presence, Headmaster,” he began. “I presume that little… scene,” he sniffed, “was what you wanted me to witness. Why?”

The older wizard sighed. “Because this year, I have repeatedly had my nose rubbed in my own fallibility, Severus. I felt it best to have younger eyes present, to give me another viewpoint. Tell me, my friend, what just happened in here? How could I have so badly failed?”

If the confession startled Professor Snape, he did not allow that startlement to show either on his face or in his demeanor. “I think that, perhaps, I am not the best person to discuss this with you, Headmaster. Perhaps Professor McGonagall would be… better? Less biased, in any case?”

“Biased in another direction, I believe you mean… isn’t that so, Severus?” The laugh which accompanied this query was, in some small amount, bitter, and it troubled Professor Snape. Equally vexing to him was the fact that the accusation had more than a little basis in truth. “Indeed, had Minerva been able, I feel that I would have asked her to be present. Unfortunately, that was not possible… and still, I would have requested your presence as well.”

“How is Minerva, anyway?” Snape asked. Though he would never admit it to anyone, the stern Transfiguration Mistress was one of the few people he regarded as an equal, not just as a colleague, but in terms of sheer personality – and, it must be said, as one of the few he would admit, even if only to himself, to be a friend. The attack she had suffered had only cemented his already poor opinion of Dolores Umbridge and her methods.

Albus smiled, his first since reappearing in his chambers early that morning. “She is recovering nicely. I suspect that we shall have her back with us shortly – doubtless, against the recommendations of her Healer.” Frowning once more, Albus’s eyes turned inward, seeing things that he wished they couldn’t. “So many mistakes, Severus… and this year, so much worse than ever before. I truly fear I am beginning to grow too old for this.” For a time, the two sat in silence, both thinking about matters they would prefer to avoid. “So, Severus, to my purpose in having you here. What did you observe?”

Severus scowled, plainly reluctant to begin what he clearly regarded as an unpleasant task. Nonetheless, he had spent much of his adult life undertaking such tasks, and he steeled himself to what was required of him. “I was put in mind of another confrontation in this very chamber, Albus. It was almost like looking back, twenty years…”

The Headmaster nodded. “Yes. Harry does resemble his father, doesn’t he? And not just in looks…”

“It was more than that, Albus. The similarities were frightening. I was in exactly the same place; Potter was in that same chair – what little time he spent in it; even you moved to take the same place Black took. Was that deliberate?”

Dumbledore frowned, remembering the two meetings and comparing them. “Yes – and no. Yes, I deliberately came out from behind my desk – I felt it necessary to place myself on a more equal footing with Harry. But no, I was not replaying that night. If you’ll remember, I wasn’t present during the scene you are speaking of. I returned later.”

“I remember,” Snape nodded. “I thought you were mad – I fully expected to be attacked the moment you left. But Potter immediately turned on Black. I think he was so furious he didn’t even realize I was in the room.” Another scowl took its place on the Potion Master’s face. “He was just as destructive as his son was, too. I think that was what kept Black in his chair – the violence Potter exhibited was terrifying, and I believe we both thought that if Black had come out of his seat, Potter would have killed him. As I thought the younger Potter would do tonight. I had him covered with my wand the whole time, you realize.”

“I did not,” Dumbledore replied, “and I am glad you refrained from using it, Severus. As I said to him, had young Harry attacked me, I would have fully deserved it.” He raised his hand to forestall Severus’s impending comment. “Be that as it may, I am more troubled by the differences between the two confrontations than the similarities. Did you not note them?”

Puzzlement creased Snape’s brow. “I must say, Headmaster… I haven’t the faintest idea what you may be driving at. Besides the players, I saw very little difference between tonight and twenty years ago.” He allowed his question to rise, unasked, to his eyes.

“Think, Severus, back twenty years… why were you so worried about being left alone with James and Sirius? What one detail are you overlooking… the one which marks the difference between this morning’s Potter and the one of twenty years ago?”

“I was worried because you took our wands! With that, I could have at least defended myself had those two attacked me! Without it…” Severus dropped his voice. “Without it, it would have been two on one, and either one of them could have beaten me to a pulp. I was panic-stricken when I realized you intended to leave me alone with them. Especially with the mood Potter was in.” With a deep breath, Professor Snape pulled himself back to the present. “Even without his wand, I was… impressed by the destruction he caused. He could have given my mother a run for her money so far as tantrums were concerned.” A tight, unamused grin appeared on his face. “Though Mother was generally much more expensive.” He frowned. “Most of it was by wandless magic, too. Trinkets were exploding all over the room… Potter was dangerous, that night. More so than usual.”

Dumbledore’s voice was gentle. “And you still don’t see the difference which concerns me?”

Again, Professor Snape frowned – the intensity of the expression was beginning to give him a headache, something which was most unusual for the Potions Master, and which would have surprised almost everyone who knew him. “Potter had his wand this morning. Even had it out a time or two – that had me worried at the time. Is that significant?”

Albus sighed again. “You saw it then… but only part of it. Yes, Harry had his wand, and even brandished it. But he never used magic. Not even wandless magic – and he was certainly angry enough that there should have been explosions everywhere. Now do you see?”

When Severus spoke again, his voice betrayed how taken aback he was. “The boy has control, then… much more than his father did. I wouldn’t have suspected it. You’re right – it was right in front of me, and I never saw.” When he met the Headmaster’s gaze, his expression was one of confusion. “What does it mean, then? Obviously, you think it important, but why?”

For a long time, Albus remained silent. When he finally spoke, his tone was even more care-laden than it had been. “I fear it means that young Harry is changing. He is growing, Severus, and it will mean great changes for the wizarding world. ‘Great and terrible changes,’ to mimic our friend Mister Olivander.”

For once, the shock Professor Snape felt was clearly etched on his face. “Growing, Headmaster? Into something more than the savior of the wizarding world? More than the Boy-Who-Lived? But what…” His eyes widened, shock being joined by horror. “Lord of Light preserve us!

The smile which appeared on Albus Dumbledore’s face was wan, but his eyes once more twinkled. “That’s one, Severus. One more and you will have tied Madame Trelawney. Are you planning on giving up your pursuit of the Defense Against the Dark Arts professorship in favor of Divination?”

The scornful snort which replied was pure, vintage Snape. “You are mad.” The look of sardonic amusement which had momentarily graced Professor Snape’s face faded into one of thoughtfulness. “You are serious about your implications, though, are you not? You aren’t just having one of your little jokes.”

“Indeed I am, Severus. I have seldom been more serious about anything in my life. I have felt for some time that Tom Riddle was moving beyond the realm of a mere Dark Lord, that he was becoming something much more menacing… and I have been afraid that, should that happen, I would be unequal to the task. It seems that my fears were founded in truth – I am indeed unequal to what will come. But, fortunate or unfortunate, it seems that there is one who is equal to it… or will be.” The gaze from the Headmaster’s eyes shifted to meet those of his one-time student, and sharpened more than Snape had ever seen them do before. “Can I trust that you will lay aside your feud with old ghosts enough to play the part we will need in the coming times, Severus? Whatever you may feel, Harry is not his father, and the time has come for you to stop blaming him for what lies with another.”

Pinned by that gaze, Professor Snape swallowed the reply which had leapt to his tongue. Finally, he nodded once. “You are right, Headmaster. It is time and past that I grew up and let the past lie. I cannot promise that everything will change for the better, but, for my part, I will endeavor not to hold Potter to blame for his father.” A sigh issued forth from his thin lips. “I cannot, of course, speak for the boy. I will do what I can to avoid provoking him, but after the mistakes of this year,” his hand rose upward, forestalling any comments, “or of past years, I cannot see Potter allowing bygones to be bygones.”

Dumbledore nodded. “I understand, Severus. I will be speaking with him over the summer, and I will do my best to calm him.”

Professor Snape frowned. “Do you think he will listen to you, sir? He seemed in no mood to do so when he stormed out of here.”

“I think that, once he has had some time to consider matters, he will at least be willing to listen. What the damage will be, I have no way of knowing at the moment. But what I can do to repair matters, I will do.” Once more, the Headmaster’s eyes shifted to something only he could see. “I only hope that it will be enough.”

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hikaru
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galadrion wrote:
The Headmaster’s Office of Hogwart’s School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Not normally a particularly loud room even at its worst, was unusually silent. The portraits on the walls, remnants of Headmasters and Headmistresses past, were openly staring, shocked by what they had just witnessed, and for once, none of them made any motion to be the first to comment. And so the current holder of that august office, Headmaster Albus Dumbledore, sat, apparently lost in thought and wearing a most uncharacteristic expression of sadness and defeat, the ever-present twinkle in his eyes dimmed.

I put a perriod at the end of the first sentance. You were declaring the location and then describing it in detail. Those are two seperate actions. Now if you had said "Wiardry was not normally a particularly..." you would have linked them together.

Galadrion wrote:
A quick counter-charm was muttered and the sallow-faced Potions Master appeared, having dismissed his Disillusionment Charm. With his typical silent movements, he glided to the chair so recently, and dramatically, vacated by the school’s most famous student. “Obviously, I received your request for my presence, Headmaster,” he began. “I presume that little… scene,” he said with a sniff, “was what you wanted me to witness. Why?”

You don't sniff words. You may sniff before or after saying words, but unless you have an extremely tallented nose, you can't "sniff" words. Smile

Galadrion wrote:
The older wizard sighed. “Because this year, I have repeatedly had my nose rubbed in my own fallibility, Severus. I felt it best to have younger eyes present, to give me another viewpoint. Tell me, my friend, what just happened in here? How could I have so badly failed?”

Here I would have exchanged "older" for "ancient" or something similar. Dumbeldore is a seriously old kodger. Now, I must admit, I don't know how old the other guy is, but I doubt he's anywhere nearly as old as Mr D is. You'd use older and younger when two people are generally of the same age.

[quote="Galadrion"]If the confession startled Professor Snape, he did not allow it to show either on his face or in his demeanor. “I think that, perhaps, I am not the best person to discuss this with you, Headmaster. Perhaps Professor McGonagall would be… better? Less biased, in any case?”[quote="Galadrion"]
"That startlement"? Please, don't make up words like that. Second, try not to use the same descriptive twice in the same sentance, or even in ajacent sentances. A simple it is more than enough to know that you're referring to him being startled.

Galadrion wrote:
“Biased in another direction, I believe you mean… Isn’t that so, Severus?” The laugh which accompanied this query was, in some small amount, bitter, which troubled Professor Snape. Equally vexing to him was the fact that the accusation had more than a little basis in truth. “Indeed, had Minerva been able, I feel that I would have asked her to be present. Unfortunately, that was not possible… And still, I would have requested your presence as well.”

Two things there. The "..." to indicate a delay is OK, but a bad habbit. --- I have been told is the preferred method of a delay. ... is used to indicate a statement trailing off or being interrupted. Also, "Isn't that so..." is a seperate sentance and needed to be in caps.

I replaced "and it" with "which" because it read more fluidly. That's a matter of taste thing. Read it aloud both ways and see which you think sounds better.

Galadrion wrote:
“How is Minerva, anyway?” Snape asked. Though he would never admit it to anyone, the stern Transfiguration Mistress was one of the few people he regarded as an equal, not just as a colleague, but in terms of sheer personality – and, it must be said, as one of the few he would admit, even if only to himself, to be a friend. The attack she had suffered had only cemented his already poor opinion of Dolores Umbridge and her methods.

Here, you're using a - rather than ... Why? It's inconsistant.

Galadrion wrote:
Albus smiled, his first since reappearing in his chambers early that morning. “She is recovering nicely. I suspect that we shall have her back with us shortly – doubtless, against the recommendations of her Healer.” Frowning once more, Albus’s thoughts turned inward, seeing things that he wished they couldn’t. “So many mistakes, Severus… and this year, so much worse than ever before. I truly fear I am beginning to grow too old for this.” For a time, the two sat in silence, both thinking about matters they would prefer to avoid. “So, Severus, to my purpose in having you here. What did you observe?”

His eyes turned inwards? They rolled up in his head until he was looking at his brain? *laughs* Nope. His thoughts turned inwards, not his eyes. Smile

The issue there is you're describing introspection as a physical action, not a mental one. You have to be very careful with such verbage.

Galadrion wrote:
Severus scowled, plainly reluctant to begin what he clearly regarded as an unpleasant task. Nonetheless, he had spent much of his adult life undertaking such tasks, and he steeled himself to what was required of him. “I was put in mind of another confrontation in this very chamber, Albus. It was almost like looking back, twenty years…”

Very good! Proper use of ... and brings out the characters point of view in a very few number of words!

Galadrion wrote:
“It was more than that, Albus. The similarities were frightening. I was in exactly the same place; Potter was in that same chair – what little time he spent in it; even you moved to take the same place Black took. Was that deliberate?”

Ummm... OK. I'll give you points for using semi-colons, but you've used WAY too many of them. This is starting to look like a print statement in Basic, using ";" to link together a bunch of things that might be better off standing alone. I'd reconsider how that statement is laid out and rewrite it.

Galadrion wrote:
“I remember,” Snape nodded. “I thought you were mad – I fully expected to be attacked the moment you left. But Potter immediately turned on Black. I think he was so furious he didn’t even realize I was in the room.” Another scowl took its place on the Potion Master’s face. “He was just as destructive as his son was, too. I think that was what kept Black in his chair – the violence Potter exhibited was terrifying, and I believe we both thought that if Black had come out of his seat, Potter would have killed him. As I thought the younger Potter would do tonight. I had him covered with my wand the whole time, you realize.

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with snape's maners of speaking, so I might be off here, but that's not very well "spoken". A clearer phrase might have been: As I thought the younger potter would do tonight, which is why I had him covered with my wand the entire time.

It's a bit more elequent and declarative at the same statment at the same time. Fluidity of speach is the key. Read them both out loud as Snape would say them, first yours than mine and see which sounds more like something you'd hear coming from him.

Of course, you'd have to re-write the start of the next paragraph if you did that. If you really want to use the word "realize" then you should start the sentance with "You do realize that I had...." with the "do" being semi-optional....

Lots of ways to play that senance out, but try to avoid ending it with "you realize" especially with a perriod and not a questionmark.

Galadrion wrote:
“I did not,” Dumbledore replied, “and I am glad you refrained from using it, Severus. As I said to him, had young Harry attacked me, I would have fully deserved it.” He raised his hand to forestall Severus’s impending comment. “Be that as it may, I am more troubled by the differences between the two confrontations than the similarities. Did you not note them?”

Not bad... You might want to name the "him" in that statement just to be clear on the subject.

Galadrion wrote:
Puzzlement creased Snape’s brow. “I must say, Headmaster… I haven’t the faintest idea what you may be driving at. Besides the players, I saw very little difference between tonight and twenty years ago.” He allowed his question to rise, unasked, to his eyes.

Not bad. The imagery works even if the last senance is a bit stilted again. There's nothing technically wrong with it, just the way it's written bugs me. Smile


I think that's enough to get the ball rolling. Feel free to explain, dissagree or argue with me over my comments and/or changes to your text.

Cheers

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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<Grin> This is why I'm glad you and EF allowed non-furry material. You're forcing me to take another look at several things, and to consider precisely what I'm trying to accomplish using them.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
The Headmaster’s Office of Hogwart’s School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Not normally a particularly loud room even at its worst, was unusually silent. <Snip>

I put a period at the end of the first sentance. You were declaring the location and then describing it in detail. Those are two seperate actions. Now if you had said "Wizardry was not normally a particularly..." you would have linked them together.


The actual parsing of that sentence should be "The Headmaster's Office of Hogwart's School of Witchcraft and Wizardry was unusually silent." The phrase "not normally a particularly loud room even at its worst" is a subordinate clause, describing (as it states) what the normal state of the office is not, thus emphasizing the out-of-the-ordinary quality of this particular silence. While this construction has fallen out of favor in the American education system, it is grammatically correct - although I'm willing to admit that it's rather Byzantine. Since that's the general tone I intended to set for this scene, I felt the older usage rather appropriate.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
A quick counter-charm was muttered and the sallow-faced Potions Master appeared, having dismissed his Disillusionment Charm. With his typical silent movements, he glided to the chair so recently, and dramatically, vacated by the school’s most famous student. “Obviously, I received your request for my presence, Headmaster,” he began. “I presume that little… scene,” he said with a sniff, “was what you wanted me to witness. Why?”

You don't sniff words. You may sniff before or after saying words, but unless you have an extremely tallented nose, you can't "sniff" words. Smile

True - though those familiar with the character would probably agree that Snape does indeed have a talented nose! He uses it almost as a weapon at times, and it certainly reinforces his many sneers. Still, I see your point, and your correction is quite likely on target in this case.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
The older wizard sighed. “Because this year, I have repeatedly had my nose rubbed in my own fallibility, Severus. I felt it best to have younger eyes present, to give me another viewpoint. Tell me, my friend, what just happened in here? How could I have so badly failed?”

Here I would have exchanged "older" for "ancient" or something similar. Dumbeldore is a seriously old codger. Now, I must admit, I don't know how old the other guy is, but I doubt he's anywhere nearly as old as Mr D is. You'd use older and younger when two people are generally of the same age.

Mm... I'm reluctant to use the word "ancient" to describe Albus Dumbledore, at least quite so soon in the story. It's been used of him so often that it can be considered a cliche. Yes, it's accurate, since Dumbledore is nearing (or possibly over - canon isn't entirely clear on this point) his hundred-and-sixtieth birthday, and yes, Severus is nowhere near that old, being contemporary with Harry's parents - call it "in his thirties". Granted, the comparison I'm using here is akin to calling a shark "larger" than a minnow - but the comparison is still accurate, if understated. I'm inclined to keep it as I originally phrased it, primarily to avoid that cliche.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
If the confession startled Professor Snape, he did not allow it to show either on his face or in his demeanor. “I think that, perhaps, I am not the best person to discuss this with you, Headmaster. Perhaps Professor McGonagall would be… better? Less biased, in any case?”

"That startlement"? Please, don't make up words like that. Second, try not to use the same descriptive twice in the same sentance, or even in ajacent sentances. A simple it is more than enough to know that you're referring to him being startled.

"Startlement" is listed as a noun variation of "startle" in Webster's Collegiate Dictionary - a listing I checked before using the word. I agree with your suggestion about not repeating the descriptive, though. I think I'll likely substitute in "surprise" for one or the other of the mentions. (Yes, I'm deliberately avoiding the simpler modes of speech. Both men are noted for their verbal complexity, and using similar constructions in the narrative emphasizes that. It's a device J.K. Rowling uses in the canon works, and one I intend to imitate when appropriate.)

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“Biased in another direction, I believe you mean… Isn’t that so, Severus?” The laugh which accompanied this query was, in some small amount, bitter, which troubled Professor Snape. Equally vexing to him was the fact that the accusation had more than a little basis in truth. “Indeed, had Minerva been able, I feel that I would have asked her to be present. Unfortunately, that was not possible… And still, I would have requested your presence as well.”

Two things there. The "..." to indicate a delay is OK, but a bad habit. --- I have been told is the preferred method of a delay. ... is used to indicate a statement trailing off or being interrupted. Also, "Isn't that so..." is a seperate sentance and needed to be in caps.

I replaced "and it" with "which" because it read more fluidly. That's a matter of taste thing. Read it aloud both ways and see which you think sounds better.

Agreed, as to the capitalizations. I think I'll leave the "and it" in place, though, as it feels more in line with the way I want this passage to scan. (Yes, I did read both aloud. The two words have an older, more archaic rhythm than the single syllable, and as I said before, I'm trying to emphasize the more formal speech of these two particular characters.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“How is Minerva, anyway?” Snape asked. Though he would never admit it to anyone, the stern Transfiguration Mistress was one of the few people he regarded as an equal, not just as a colleague, but in terms of sheer personality – and, it must be said, as one of the few he would admit, even if only to himself, to be a friend. The attack she had suffered had only cemented his already poor opinion of Dolores Umbridge and her methods.

Here, you're using a - rather than ... Why? It's inconsistant.

I use ellipses ("dots," to those educated in modern America) to indicate an actual seperation of concepts, while the em-dash indicates a refinement or expansion of a concept. The actual "rules" of such usages vary from publishing house to publishing house, sometimes even from editor to editor, and are largely a matter of taste. Were I preparing this as a submission to such, I would enquire as to the particular institution's rules, but in this case, I'm acting as my own publisher.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
Albus smiled, his first since reappearing in his chambers early that morning. “She is recovering nicely. I suspect that we shall have her back with us shortly – doubtless, against the recommendations of her Healer.” Frowning once more, Albus’s thoughts turned inward, seeing things that he wished they couldn’t. “So many mistakes, Severus… and this year, so much worse than ever before. I truly fear I am beginning to grow too old for this.” For a time, the two sat in silence, both thinking about matters they would prefer to avoid. “So, Severus, to my purpose in having you here. What did you observe?”

His eyes turned inwards? They rolled up in his head until he was looking at his brain? *laughs* Nope. His thoughts turned inwards, not his eyes. Smile

The issue there is you're describing introspection as a physical action, not a mental one. You have to be very careful with such verbage.

True, and I had some difficulty with this passage. I believe I'll follow your advice on this one.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
Severus scowled, plainly reluctant to begin what he clearly regarded as an unpleasant task. Nonetheless, he had spent much of his adult life undertaking such tasks, and he steeled himself to what was required of him. “I was put in mind of another confrontation in this very chamber, Albus. It was almost like looking back, twenty years…”

Very good! Proper use of ... and brings out the characters point of view in a very few number of words!

Whew! You're a hard one to impress!

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“It was more than that, Albus. The similarities were frightening. I was in exactly the same place; Potter was in that same chair – what little time he spent in it; even you moved to take the same place Black took. Was that deliberate?”

Ummm... OK. I'll give you points for using semi-colons, but you've used WAY too many of them. This is starting to look like a print statement in Basic, using ";" to link together a bunch of things that might be better off standing alone. I'd reconsider how that statement is laid out and rewrite it.

T'was only two of them, linking together three sentences which really belonged together. I don't really see it as excessive.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“I remember,” Snape nodded. “I thought you were mad – I fully expected to be attacked the moment you left. But Potter immediately turned on Black. I think he was so furious he didn’t even realize I was in the room.” Another scowl took its place on the Potion Master’s face. “He was just as destructive as his son was, too. I think that was what kept Black in his chair – the violence Potter exhibited was terrifying, and I believe we both thought that if Black had come out of his seat, Potter would have killed him. As I thought the younger Potter would do tonight. I had him covered with my wand the whole time, you realize.

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with snape's maners of speaking, so I might be off here, but that's not very well "spoken". A clearer phrase might have been: As I thought the younger potter would do tonight, which is why I had him covered with my wand the entire time.

It's a bit more elequent and declarative at the same statment at the same time. Fluidity of speach is the key. Read them both out loud as Snape would say them, first yours than mine and see which sounds more like something you'd hear coming from him.

<Chuckle> Snape is rarely fluid in his speech, and then only to a purpose - he often comes across as stilted, awkward, and archaic. He is very much an "Old World" personality, and his speech is often used to emphasize his less-than-friendly demeanor. If you've seen the first movie, his introductory speech in the first Potions class is a perfect example - while he can speak quite clearly, eloquently, and correctly, he rarely does so in such a way as to leave his targets (you can hardly term them an "audience") feeling comfortable or confident. Words are another weapon to him - and one he uses in preference to most others.

Hikaru wrote:
Of course, you'd have to re-write the start of the next paragraph if you did that. If you really want to use the word "realize" then you should start the sentance with "You do realize that I had...." with the "do" being semi-optional....

In Snape's case, he'd probably drop it. However, the phrasing I used sounds even more like what I'd expect him to say.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“I did not,” Dumbledore replied, “and I am glad you refrained from using it, Severus. As I said to him, had young Harry attacked me, I would have fully deserved it.” He raised his hand to forestall Severus’s impending comment. “Be that as it may, I am more troubled by the differences between the two confrontations than the similarities. Did you not note them?”

Not bad... You might want to name the "him" in that statement just to be clear on the subject.

To be honest, I had considered italicizing "him", emphasizing that it was indeed young Harry being referred to, but Dumbledore probably would not have emphasized the word.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
Puzzlement creased Snape’s brow. “I must say, Headmaster… I haven’t the faintest idea what you may be driving at. Besides the players, I saw very little difference between tonight and twenty years ago.” He allowed his question to rise, unasked, to his eyes.

Not bad. The imagery works even if the last sentance is a bit stilted again. There's nothing technically wrong with it, just the way it's written bugs me. Smile

Again, I was trying to capture Snape's mode of speech. The fellow is definitely not simple character - he is a master of verbal misdirection, and often speaks in an elliptical manner even when what he's saying is fairly straightforward.

All in all, I think you've given me a great deal to think about, and I'll definitely be including some of your suggestions in the final version. Just to reassure you (and anyone else), later chapters do use more colloquial language - barring, of course, passages which include these two characters. Even those have more modern usage when they are interacting with other (especially younger) characters. I was, as I mentioned, using the more stilted structures to emphasize the speech patterns of these two individuals.

I'll probably upload a few other passages at a later time to show precisely what I mean by that, but for right now, I need to get to bed - I work in the morning, and it's really too late for me to do that at the moment. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, Hikaru - you've helped me with a few things that were leaving me a bit uncomfortable.

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hikaru
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galadrion wrote:
<Grin> This is why I'm glad you and EF allowed non-furry material. You're forcing me to take another look at several things, and to consider precisely what I'm trying to accomplish using them.

Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
The older wizard sighed. “Because this year, I have repeatedly had my nose rubbed in my own fallibility, Severus. I felt it best to have younger eyes present, to give me another viewpoint. Tell me, my friend, what just happened in here? How could I have so badly failed?”

Here I would have exchanged "older" for "ancient" or something similar. Dumbeldore is a seriously old codger. Now, I must admit, I don't know how old the other guy is, but I doubt he's anywhere nearly as old as Mr D is. You'd use older and younger when two people are generally of the same age.

Mm... I'm reluctant to use the word "ancient" to describe Albus Dumbledore, at least quite so soon in the story. It's been used of him so often that it can be considered a cliche. Yes, it's accurate, since Dumbledore is nearing (or possibly over - canon isn't entirely clear on this point) his hundred-and-sixtieth birthday, and yes, Severus is nowhere near that old, being contemporary with Harry's parents - call it "in his thirties". Granted, the comparison I'm using here is akin to calling a shark "larger" than a minnow - but the comparison is still accurate, if understated. I'm inclined to keep it as I originally phrased it, primarily to avoid that cliche.

How about some thesaurus time? Venerated/venerable are a couple of good ones that might work there.


Galadrion wrote:
"Startlement" is listed as a noun variation of "startle" in Webster's Collegiate Dictionary - a listing I checked before using the word. I agree with your suggestion about not repeating the descriptive, though. I think I'll likely substitute in "surprise" for one or the other of the mentions. (Yes, I'm deliberately avoiding the simpler modes of speech. Both men are noted for their verbal complexity, and using similar constructions in the narrative emphasizes that. It's a device J.K. Rowling uses in the canon works, and one I intend to imitate when appropriate.)

Hmmm... I looked that one up at dictionary.com and they didn't have any reference for it. My bad I guess.

Galadrion wrote:
Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
Severus scowled, plainly reluctant to begin what he clearly regarded as an unpleasant task. Nonetheless, he had spent much of his adult life undertaking such tasks, and he steeled himself to what was required of him. “I was put in mind of another confrontation in this very chamber, Albus. It was almost like looking back, twenty years…”

Very good! Proper use of ... and brings out the characters point of view in a very few number of words!

Whew! You're a hard one to impress!

As a writer, I'm my own worst crittic. Being such, I have become very tight-a$$ed when it comes to such things when other people ask for editing. I'm not doing anyone any favors if I'm cutting them any slack.

Before I publish a chapter, I've read it through at least three or four times before I ever send it to the editor. I get his changes back and review them and his comments, accepting or rejecting them depending on the situation. We always argue about people's patterns of speach. He wants everyone to talk proper english and I tend to want them to talk realistically.... in American! Smile

After that, I do one final read-through editing again for phrasing and content, then copy it to Dreamweaver for posting. THEN I edit the file one last time to make sure I didn't miss anything. It's a lot of work, but I think the reader deserves it.

Galadrion wrote:
Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“It was more than that, Albus. The similarities were frightening. I was in exactly the same place; Potter was in that same chair – what little time he spent in it; even you moved to take the same place Black took. Was that deliberate?”

Ummm... OK. I'll give you points for using semi-colons, but you've used WAY too many of them. This is starting to look like a print statement in Basic, using ";" to link together a bunch of things that might be better off standing alone. I'd reconsider how that statement is laid out and rewrite it.

T'was only two of them, linking together three sentences which really belonged together. I don't really see it as excessive.

Yes, but it would have worked equially as well with perriods and the concepts would have still been linked by the fact that they're in the same paragraph.

Take a look at published works and see just how many times you can find a sentance with two semi-colons in it. I've never seen it myself that I can remember.

Galadrion wrote:
Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
“I did not,” Dumbledore replied, “and I am glad you refrained from using it, Severus. As I said to him, had young Harry attacked me, I would have fully deserved it.” He raised his hand to forestall Severus’s impending comment. “Be that as it may, I am more troubled by the differences between the two confrontations than the similarities. Did you not note them?”

Not bad... You might want to name the "him" in that statement just to be clear on the subject.

To be honest, I had considered italicizing "him", emphasizing that it was indeed young Harry being referred to, but Dumbledore probably would not have emphasized the word.

Still, I was somewhat confused about which "him" you were referring to at that point. So many names had been bantered about at that point that there was cause to question.

Galadrion wrote:
Hikaru wrote:
Galadrion wrote:
Puzzlement creased Snape’s brow. “I must say, Headmaster… I haven’t the faintest idea what you may be driving at. Besides the players, I saw very little difference between tonight and twenty years ago.” He allowed his question to rise, unasked, to his eyes.

Not bad. The imagery works even if the last sentance is a bit stilted again. There's nothing technically wrong with it, just the way it's written bugs me. Smile

Again, I was trying to capture Snape's mode of speech. The fellow is definitely not simple character - he is a master of verbal misdirection, and often speaks in an elliptical manner even when what he's saying is fairly straightforward.

In that case, I wasn't talking about his speach... I was talking about the ending of "He allowed his question to rise, unasked, to his eyes." That just bothered me.

Galadrion wrote:
All in all, I think you've given me a great deal to think about, and I'll definitely be including some of your suggestions in the final version. Just to reassure you (and anyone else), later chapters do use more colloquial language - barring, of course, passages which include these two characters. Even those have more modern usage when they are interacting with other (especially younger) characters. I was, as I mentioned, using the more stilted structures to emphasize the speech patterns of these two individuals.

I'll probably upload a few other passages at a later time to show precisely what I mean by that, but for right now, I need to get to bed - I work in the morning, and it's really too late for me to do that at the moment. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, Hikaru - you've helped me with a few things that were leaving me a bit uncomfortable.

Glad to be of assistance. That's what we're all about here, eh?

Cheers

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