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Jai_taigas Site Owner
Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 107 Location: Anywhere Lone
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: Loaded Subject! |
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Now I know politics is a rather shadey subject to come across, but I've been reading about this sort for a few days now. The more I read about Bush's last 1000 days in office the more scared I get!
From the attempt to impeach both the Vice-pres and the pres himself, down to Pelosi stating that she won't let this come to pass.... at least that's my understanding of what she said.
Then we get down to the nitty gritty, the rumors of a war with iran. That Bush is a War Monger and he's going to start that third and final war with iran, these are the things that i read about as of late, this sort of stuff worries me to no end. Anyone else in this boat? Or on the opposite side to show that it's all hype? _________________ Murph, this is my signature, read it with awe and admiration while you wish you had one like this. |
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Rabbit Registered User
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 345 Location: Middle Tennessee
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe we _need_ to fight a war with Iran? I can't make up my mind, myself. |
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Syrius Registered User
Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 1463 Location: The S.S. ScurvyDog, Arizona! YARR!
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, but let's not do it based in empirical evidence just because they found nuts and bolts that can be used to fire a doomsday ray. _________________ Hey, Sony... IT'S PAYBACK TIME!
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WhiteStorm Registered User
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 123 Location: Forever in Winter
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Israel would make a glowing crater out of Iran long before it became a threat to the USA. |
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ScottyDM Registered User
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 1142 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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The USA does not have enough soldiers to fight a proper war with Iraq, let alone Iraq + Afghanistan + Iran. We would positively need to reinstate the draft.
Scotty _________________
Kantaro wrote: | Almost real enough to be considered non-fiction, if it weren't made up. |
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Jai_taigas Site Owner
Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 107 Location: Anywhere Lone
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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As I see it, America is already spread too thin, military wise... plus, I'd think our failing economy and weakening dollar would be a bigger problem over the "information" that Bush is giving us on Iran. I'd like to remind yall of the "information" that Bush gave us on Iraq. I'm really not one to jump the gun and trust anything he says.
Plus, what do yall think will happen, if we did attack Iran and won? We'd Liberate them? The people in Iran hate us more then the Iraqi's do! It'd be another Iraq in the long run, where we'd go what the hell did we just do? Thousands of dead soldiers and more dying to try and fix a problem that we started.
For the presidential candidate, I want to see them focus on the home problems first! We are not the police of the world! It is not our job to monitor and run the world! We need to work on America! Once America is back in shape, then we can change our view to help the outside world. But when we have a failing economy and a dollar that is weakening, I fail to see how we are in a position to help anyone else! _________________ Murph, this is my signature, read it with awe and admiration while you wish you had one like this. |
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Henry_Hound Registered User
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 792 Location: Somewhereville, MO
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I am in agreement with Mike. While I do agree we should pay more attention to Our own problems we cannot ignore the rest of the world and expect them to leave us alone. (Pearl Harbor, 9/11). I will also say that we should not start military actions against Iran, or anyone else for that matter, unless we absolutely have to.
As for Afghanistan and Iraq we need to stay there until we can pull out without leaving either government in danger of collapsing or we will be back there again. _________________ I'm a serial killer, it's a bad habbit.
I killed tony, lucky charms, and the silly rabbit. |
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Jai_taigas Site Owner
Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 107 Location: Anywhere Lone
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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perhaps i said what I said in a wrong manner
I am not saying that we should isolate ourselves from the world, but that we should stop trying to be the world's police.
Keep an eye out for what could come as something detrimentally bad for our country, but we still need to focus more on our economy and less on wars. Tell me, what benefits have come from the war with Iraq? What good can we say we have accomplished? From my understanding of the war, the reason for attacking Iraq, from bush's mouth, has flipped from Terrorists, and flopped over to weapons of mass destruction. Then mysteriously faded from the news. Mind you i'm not for pulling out early, I just don't think we need another war on our hands, when we're having enough problems with Iraq!
eh I guess i could better phrase it as...we need to focus more on fixing the American Economy and... not have a war with Iran! Which Bush seems to be trying to push for more and more >.> _________________ Murph, this is my signature, read it with awe and admiration while you wish you had one like this. |
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Sigurd Volsung Registered User
Joined: 21 Feb 2004 Posts: 3216 Location: The Twin Cities
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Bush demanded evidence that would allow him to have his war with Iraq, and when that evidence wasn't there he had it made up. Unless we do something to improve the military strength we can't possibly fight Iran at this moment, or any other country for that matter. We can increase military readieness by moving redeploying the forces that are in Japan and South Korea. Japan has the best equipped military force in Asia, and North Korea admits they need South Korea's help.
The problem with enlarging military forces would that it would require increased taxes to fund the increase. Soldiers need pay and equipment, we need money to fund R&D projects to create better equipment for the urban warfare that we are now fighting. The Israelis have far better weapons than we do because they are constantly at threat of being attacked. We need to reequip our forces with the best equipment available to minimize losses. On top of that we need to better train our soldiers in foreign languages and customs so that we can better communicate with the citizens that we are trying to protect.
As far as R&D projects go we need to promote the education in science and engineering which also means making college more affordable by funding the State universities so they can lower their tuitions and by making more grants available.
We can help our economy while helping our economy but it does mean making hard, unpopular, decisions. We MUST raise taxes in order to be ready for another war. _________________ Bad moods are like hangovers, they eventually go away. - A. Sigurd Olson |
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Jai_taigas Site Owner
Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 107 Location: Anywhere Lone
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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But those are the problems Mike, The president has never had any solid facts to begin with. I have no problem with war, sometimes an ugly means is needed to gain a good end. But I have no problem with a Justified war. Bush started the war with Iraq under False pretense.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_presents_Bush_impeachment_articles_0609.html
"The first article Kucinich presented, and many that followed, regarded the war in Iraq: "Article 1 - Creating a secret propaganda campaign to manufacture a false case for war against Iraq."
It's common knowledge that Bush lied to the American public to get that war in Iraq to happen.
Yes, the Iraq war created some jobs for the American public and yes as this war does start to slow down they will need to cut jobs, but I really don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Currently, they are still hiring for kp workers, on contract, and they get paid about 65,000 a year tax free! And they are just the folk that clean and serve the soldiers the food. There is still plenty of money being pumped into Iraq.
I really can't stress this enough, that I agree for a strong military. That we should take pre-emptive measures to stop threats to America, but when there are shadey situations as these, I feel that we were a bit rushed into the Iraq war, and that for the moment... we have no purpose to even consider a war with Iran.
my dad was in the military, I grew up a military brat, I'm a big supporter of the military itself. I'll be the first to protect their rights, but I don't trust Bush and i believe he's a con - artist. He swindled America into this War. In my opinion.
I will end my reply with this. Yes, terrorists do come from all nations and breeds and races. But does that give us the right to attack any one nation without any solid evidence? Especially when the rest of the world was going, no no no, and we did it anyways? Mind you my current events could be wrong, but I'm rather sure, that the U.N did frown upon the start of this war with Bush Jr's war mind you. And Bush kinda did it anyways. But eh, these are all just my opinions on current events. _________________ Murph, this is my signature, read it with awe and admiration while you wish you had one like this. |
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Howellfan Registered User
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 188
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm....I - like most people, I suspect - could say a LOT on these issues, but in the interest of brevity(and possibly sanity)I'll mostly defer from joining the fray here.
I'll just say that I'm sick of hyperbole and am developing a strong aversion to -and suspicion of - 'goats' of ANY stripe,(big gov., big oil, big auto, Rumsfeld, Bush, the 'liberal establishment', take your pick;c'mon people, they CAN'T be the FULL story. Gimme a break!)and that I think the vast majority of people - at least in this country - and not allways on any one political side - are being a good bit premature and one-tracked in their views on a lot of issues. I think the verdict of history may be much more qualified and full of mitigating provisos than most people care to contemplate right now. At least, I plan to suspend a degree of judgment and wait and see, and if I may give an analogy to illustrate the reason for my reticence:
*Ahem*...The O.J. Simpson murder trial. What would your verdict as a juror have been, hmmm?
I for one don't wanna get taken for a ride by Johnny!
Just think about it. |
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GriffinX Registered User
Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 785 Location: SLC Utah
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Jai_taigas wrote: | but that we should stop trying to be the world's police. |
I'm sorry but last time i checked we ARE ONE OF the largest, most economically superior, and incredibly stable countries on the planet. We're known as a superpower, and I'm sorry to disagree with you on your previous statement. While yes our economy is falling along with the dollar, it still can be considered at a high point, look at the yen that's almost 120 to 1. The dollar only looks to have fallen a long way from our perspective.
Along with the title comes certain responsibility, now I agree that we can't be nit picky when it comes to every little piece of info (good or bad).
I know this sounds kind of ironic coming from this forum and I really didn't want to sound like a war monger. But I believe in helping, and if something bad is happening to someone somewhere and we didn't do something about it, like we have for places like south Korea, some places like the congos in Africa I honestly don't think we would deserve the right to call ourselves human, for that's all the word humane means.
And I'm sure the other superpowers do the same thing we do, the only difference is they've been able to hide it better than our president.
oh and if you guys are thinking that our military is so weak that it couldn't repel an attack on native soil just think of every person in America as minutemen. For a little known law enacted by President Reagan insights that 'when in times of war, if an enemy is able to march a force on American land, every armory in the country be it a small depot in a small town or a full base in the largest city will throw open its doors so that the native populace can defend without being part of the military.'
Now I don't know about you guys but if push comes to shove and someone does try, this is one fur that's gonna get himself a 50 BMG sniper rifle and plenty of tank Buster, armor piercing ammo to go with it. I Will make them regret it.
Personally I think this would make it great deterrent to know that if you were to march on U.S. soil the entire population of the United States of America would fight you tooth and nail.
Not that we wouldn't be able to without the help of the armories for almost everyone in this country owns a gun of some sort. _________________ to each their own
"a riot is at bottom the language of the unheard." Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
"you can get more with a kind word and a gun than you could with just a kind word." Al Capone
http://www.freewebs.com/griffinxango/ |
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Jai_taigas Site Owner
Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 107 Location: Anywhere Lone
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Mike, all the information I got from Bush are facts I got from various news articles that I have cross referenced and double checked sources and researched into myself.
When Bush ran for President, I was the first to defend the man and jump behind him. It really saddens me to say it but he is a War Monger. He's a liar and I flat out don't trust him.
Just look online, at the countless articles, the countless facets of truths that tell the tale of Bush's crooked war. I've talked with more then enough solders that came back from Iraq, questioning what purpose they risked their lives for! I've seen more then enough people question why their sons and their daughters are fighting for a lie. This huge of a movement against the Iraq War can't be because every single person in this is blindly against Bush dude. It's because they all see it for the lie that it is. _________________ Murph, this is my signature, read it with awe and admiration while you wish you had one like this. |
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Henry_Hound Registered User
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 792 Location: Somewhereville, MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Regan wrote: | And name me one President that has been popular WHILE IN OFFICE. |
I can name one and only one. Franklin Deleno Roosevelt. Of course getting the country out of the Great Depression helped him a lot on this. Also he was the only president, I believe, to be elected to four terms in the white house. _________________ I'm a serial killer, it's a bad habbit.
I killed tony, lucky charms, and the silly rabbit. |
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Howellfan Registered User
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 188
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Uhmmm...Reagen(Iran-Contra notwithstanding)? FDR? George Washington?(Okay okay, maybe that one's a little unfair! )
Mike, I take an interest in allternative energy and clean energy tech, not because I'm hellbent convinced about human-produced global warmin(possible enough to warrant precautionary measures - yes, even if they cost money - but not as conclusive as many people and scientists would insist)but because have-your-cake-and-eat-it and straw-into-gold technology is just plain COOL. I mean c'mon - who wouldn't want a Tesla Roadster!
The 'long-tailpipe' argument has been answered to death! For the uberbazillionth time:even a modern, coal-fired, centralized power plant is, by far, cleaner and more efficient than millions of inefficient internal combustion engines, by any measure you bring to the table. That is the answer, at least, given by proponents, and laid out in great detail. You can find one paper making just this case on Tesla's home site. And this doesn't take into account the significant(and increasing) contributions of wind, solar(don't even mention cost - thanks to next-gen thin-film technologies such as Nanosolar's, cost will soon drop through the floor), and yes, hydro.
Certainly, the argument concurs with my own common sense.
Did you research the question at all? I mean, yeah, this is a forum for casual thoughts and speaking off-the-cuff, but still....
Last edited by Howellfan on Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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