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Frazikar
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Clue-in tip Reply with quote

Now, now, Karou, you have to observe the subject first to determine the right clue-in tool, for some a light tap is all that's needed, for others, well orbital bombardment might work (and for those extreme cases, novas only have a small chance)...
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Nicolai Borovskaya
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Karou, can we take turns?

I have an excellent clue-by-four here. It was used on me recently, and I feel the need to pass it on.

Filly, I believe you handled that individual as well as could be done. Some furs (and humans) are so blinded by 'blind faith' that they are truly blind. This sounds like such a situation. If it is, the only really viable solution is for X's god to come down and give him the rough side of a tongue.

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

May it be so.

Nicolai

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anthony
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of pieces of 2x5" that was left over from building the floor in the attic. They're very 'rough hewn' and full of splinters.

If anyone could point me in the direction of 'x' I'd be glad to help him replace the broomstick he's got up his @rse with one of them...

Personally, I'm not a very religious person(I am listed as a member of a church, but that's more for convenience), but I have the deepest respect for those who TRULY BELIEVE, and I will not tolerate crap like this.

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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really do appreciate everyone's sentiment. There's no need to get violent though.

I wouldn't want X to be hurt, but I would like for him to stop and please understand that I am not going to convert to catholicism. Not now, not ever. I'd also like for him to understand that this is not a matter of me having lost faith in my own gods but rather that I was upset by a certain way of describing them.

I can't seem to get that through his skull, and thusly, I have stopped trying. He's entitled to his own beliefs. He's just not entitled to try to shove them down my throat, no matter how many niceties he packs up his proselytizing in.

*big round of hugs for all my great readers* You guys are amazing, though...for jumping up to my defense like that. I know many of you are believing christians, and yet you stand up for my right to believe in something else. I think that's a -great- thing, and I commend it.
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Teric
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read through your blog, and I have to jump in here.

I just sat there shaking my head in shame as I read the snippets of X's emails that you posted. I have been involved in *many* religious discussions throughout my life; I served for two years as a full-time missionary in Argentina (1993-1995), and I still look at X's comments and cringe.

Striving to 'prove' that another's beliefs are wrong or misguided is never constructive. As you said yourself, faith is a very personal thing, and those beliefs must be built through personal study and experience.

For what it's worth, I deeply apologize for how X has treated you.

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Karou WindStalker
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aslaug wrote:
I really do appreciate everyone's sentiment. There's no need to get violent though.

I wouldn't want X to be hurt, but I would like for him to stop and please understand that I am not going to convert to catholicism. Not now, not ever. I'd also like for him to understand that this is not a matter of me having lost faith in my own gods but rather that I was upset by a certain way of describing them.

I can't seem to get that through his skull, and thusly, I have stopped trying. He's entitled to his own beliefs. He's just not entitled to try to shove them down my throat, no matter how many niceties he packs up his proselytizing in.

*big round of hugs for all my great readers* You guys are amazing, though...for jumping up to my defense like that. I know many of you are believing christians, and yet you stand up for my right to believe in something else. I think that's a -great- thing, and I commend it.


Not a believing or practicing member of any formally recognized religion...

I just agree with he precept that no matter what anyone believes, it isn't my place to try to force them to believe any other way than they already do.

I may make them question their belief system, when they hear how I believe, but I do not believe that I should do any more than show them that there is more than one way to achieve the same goal.. to treat everyone with the same respect we wish to get.

If I feel my beliefs are not being respected, I give the one that I feel is disrespecting my choices in life three warnings .. if they do not heed the warnings, I begin to use their own belief system to riddle their statements full of holes... But I only do this if they fail to heed the warnings I give them.

*pauses here .. it's late and Karou's feeling he might get preachy*

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Kellan Meig'h
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Grief, Filly!

I just finished reading your latest blog and I have to tell you that I am totally shocked by what I just read there!

I was so disturbed by what I read that all of the things I thought about posting just didn't seem ... Oh, I don't know ... fitting? I guess I somehow got angered by this "X" person's viewpoint.

We have had a few light discussions about religion and even though I'm Mormon (yeah, I said that out loud, everybody) and I believe my god to exist, in that same vein I must believe that your gods exist also. Don't ask me to explain that, I just feel this is how it is. I've felt that way about it for maybe about 40 years? A long time, anyways.

I would never in a lifetime suggest to anyone that their religion is wrong because that in itself is wrong to me. You have your gods that you worship and I would never tell you it's a false religion you worship. To do so is so very wrong. In fact, I would vehemently defend your right to worship in your way! If my religion is a true religion, then yours has to be a true religion too.

Anyway, "X" is waaaay off base here and hope this person never shows up on my doorstep. Those people (that mindset) just drive me crazy. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was venting but this "X" character somehow managed to irritate me too...

You're a wonderful person and I want you to know you will always have my support.

Kellan

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Kristie_Kitty
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch Filly...

I will apologies and take full responsibility for Mr. X wrongful e-mails to you, even though I am not him, nor do I share the same faith and persecution in his own blinded beliefs. I just feel that it is my right as a spiritual person to ask for forgiveness on behalf of another, even though I know what Mr. X was completely and utterly insulting to you and your personal beliefs.

And for you Mr. X, even though you though you had good intentions, but what you did was completely wrong in the ways you carried them out, in a sense you have betrayed your own faith and church to convert someone with their own personal free will and belief structure. And you Mr. X will never taint others with such foul disrespect of others personal beliefs and cultural ways. I am ashamed that you are a fellow American and only fear that is proven that majority of all Americans (not all, not everyone here) are a bunch of assholes when it comes to other beliefs and other cultures, never willing to sit and wonder about them but instead just convert and conquer.

Again filly, I will take full responsibility for Mr. X and what he has done to you. I am not him, no way like him, I was raided as Catholic Methodist, and found out in my early teens that the foundation of most churches (not all) are lies and pure selfish intent. I am a humble furson with deep spiritual beliefs that I belong to no church and no religion can claim me (even my born again cousins keep on pressuring me to join their church whenever possible as if "to save my soul" as they like to call it.). The closest thing I am to religious belief is Buddhist, but these facts are wrong, the general foundation of Buddhist is a certain way of life. I will stop myself now before preaching even more. You have my full support Filly and please accept my apologie.

Kristie_Kitty
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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*chuckles* Thanks Kristie, but...you shouldn't take responsibility for -his- behavior unless you're responsible for it. I can't put any blame on you for what he's done.

He just seems to think he could make a nice little convert out of me, and all he's accomplished is to alienate me.

Don't worry.
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Nicolai Borovskaya
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"X" sounds more like a Jehovah's Witness (Witless?) than a Catholic to me. And that is damnation enough by itself.

My own belief is that all gods are real for those who believe in them. If you don't believe in them, they don't manifest in your reality.

The analogy I like to use is an immense gem with an infinite number of facets. This gem is diety, however you want to define that term. The totality of the gem, like diety, is well beyond the comprehension of any human or furry mind.

The human mind can readily encompass one facet. An exceptional mind might manage two or three, but that would be rare. Each and every one of us has a single, unique facet that we face and comprehend.

Those who share a common religion have their facets closely aligned, but they are not identical, as each of us brings our own experiences and biases with us.

There are even facets for the agnostic, atheist and a-religionist. Yes, I made up that last term, but it does apply to some I've met. And I do classify atheism as a religion in and of itself.

I, myself, am off to the southwest of the christian facets, about 1/3 of the way around. As a polytheist, I see several different aspects, or faces, of the diety, in the form of multiple gods and goddesses.

So, we all, all, worship the same diety, which is unknown and unknowable. What we see is the particular face, or faces, of the diety (facet of the gem) that is best suited for us in this lifetime.

Just sharing a bit of my personal philosophy that may help others here with their understanding of me. And possibly give them some new avenues to explore.

Nicolai

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anthony
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except...

Jehovah's witnesses is easy to get rid of...

Near where I live there used to be a work-camp for 'conscientius objectors' (people who didn't want to do his duty for king and country for even a fewmonths, and used religion to get away with it), and quite a few of those were Jehovahs...

According to one of them they HAD TO go round and make an attempt to convert everyone in the neighbourhood. He even apologised for it...
(He was one of the good ones)
They usually only came around once, after that they hd done their duty.
(Unless they were self-righteous b@stards... )

Good ways of getting rid of them includes opening the door while wearing nothing and exclaiming 'There you are! We were just waiting for you guys to start the orgy', a punch in the teeth(most vitnesses are pushovers), or just the classic, 'It was you who did my girl pregnant?!'...

Email proselytizers, though, requires a bit more ... evil...

Writing them in as generic bad guys in a slash-fiction works sometimes...
(Of course, some may like to be 'immortalized' that way... )

Sending them a 'Cease and desist' email. Then, when they continue sending messages, a 'not so polite' message to their ISP and to the police...
(Harassment is harassment... )

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AmigaDragon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contrary to probably most other religions, Judeo/Christian (and I guess Muslim) teachings state that there is ONLY ONE God and all others are false. Adding polytheism to it dilutes the original faith to meaninglessness.
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Nicolai Borovskaya
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmigaDragon wrote:
Contrary to probably most other religions, Judeo/Christian (and I guess Muslim) teachings state that there is ONLY ONE God and all others are false. Adding polytheism to it dilutes the original faith to meaninglessness.


If that is your belief, then it is true for you. There is only one God. I made, and will make, no attempt to change your beliefs.

What I said was, diety (again, however you wish to define the concept) is beyond our ability to comprehend, by multiple orders of magnitude. What we can comprehend is unique to each of us. And real to each of us. But there is no need for your reality to be in agreement with mine.

This way we can all believe as we choose, go to the heaven (or hell) of our choice, and still live without conflict. Now, if the rest of the world would just realize that...

Nicolai

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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Nicolai is talking about is actually a form of Henotheism, which means a focus on one diety, but an acceptance of the possible existence of others. Which is what I do...except I don't focus on one deity.

As I've always said, I don't deny the potential existence of the Christian God. I do deny his monoply on salvation, I deny his omnipotence and his omnipresence...but I will freely admit he's got a damned good Public Relations department! However, that won't make me worship him Smile
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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys remember X?

Well, he's back, and with a vengeance...

Yesterday, I got the following Email from him:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A question I am asking of many.

Though first; I never even suggested you should convert. I would be the last person to ask some one else to convert. I was even surprised you, well ranted about me. The most I would have expected is a line saying perhaps; 'Americans can be so annoying'. Oh I did learn that yes there is an edict banning none Catholics from the church. But not from John Paul II, but our present pope Benedict XVI, who I learned was, in essence, John Pauls' 'hatchet man'. Win some loose some. But enough of that silliness.

I have been asking a question around, and since you are the only person in Europe I know of, that has lots of connections (I hope) could get lots of responses.

The question is simply this; What words come to mind when thinking of the concept of honor. Not sentences or just one word, but as many words as a person thinks of.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sent him the following reply:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: A question I am asking of many.

I ranted because the tone in your emails was highly lecturing, and while you may not have asked me outright to convert, you were openly holding up your faith as a shining beacon of near-truth while putting what I believe in down as mere superstition. Which I found extremely disrespectful.

I will let that be the last words I say about the matter, because I do not intend to get into another round of debate on this issue. The last time around angered me sufficiently. I do not mind debating religion at all. In fact I enjoy it, if done with someone who can hold true to their own beliefs while remaining respectful about those of others, and I have said what I need to say about it.

However, before I answer the question, given the recent arguments we've had, I would like to know why you want to know how I define honor. What is that question going to lead to? I hope you can understand why I am wary of this, because I really do not want to get involved in another exchange like the last one we went through.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then today I received this from him:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?

There were some posting to my question I will use as to why I am asking my question.

"As a concept, I know and believe that honor has vastly different meanings to everyone. To sum up my own perception in simple words, is a much larger task than it seems "

"In these modern times something such as honor is lost upon the unforgiving masses."

"But what most applies to your quest, Mark, is: "Subjective." I don't mean to be rude by putting it like that, but honor has had different meanings to different people and different societies for ages."



Oh, heh, you give your age away in the way you, well, rant. Oh do I remember my youth! X;{ :-! :-[ Like most older folks when we look back at our youth, we laugh a bit, and admit at our naivety, arrogance and oh our stupidity. I will not bother to explain, you will understand when you get older. Very Happy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I very, very nearly sent him another long rant. Very nearly. Instead, I caught on and sent him the following:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Why?

You know...you nearly got me. I nearly sent you another rant. But I'm not going to let you bait me again. Your blatant attempts at insulting me are irrellevant and without weight.

I decline to answer your question since I have no reason to believe you are honestly interested in my definition of honor. I do, however, have reason to believe you are trying to further insult or annoy me. As I have better things to do with my time than play your silly headgames, I'll instead settle for simply asking you to permanently leave me alone.

My definition of honor is clear and personal. I am comfortable with it. However, seeing as you have done so much to present an openly hostile, patronizing and condescending picture of yourself, I should prefer not to share it with you.

Regards

Joan Jacobsen

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt it sinks in with him...but look at the last paragraph of his second email a few more times, and tell me that this isn't starting to get funny? Honestly? I mean...involuntarily humorous, that is...??

Dear Gods, some people just can't take a hint.
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