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Pflarrian
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That...

...is a LOT of chocolate...

Kind of reminds me of the fridge here. I know I say this too often, but when I am hungry, I must remember to NOT go into stores that have sales on Christmas candy...
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Tygon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, this is my first vent. I feel myself getting majorly depressed again and I also begin to be very agressive in discussions over the forum.

Note: feel free to post your opinions and/or comments to my rants here.

If I offend anybody, sorry about that.

Special apologies to the two who have already heard this. I'm sorry, my friends, but I just have to say it again here.

I really don't get what I do wrong. Everytime I think I've done a good job with a story/chapter I'm proven wrong because either nobody reads it or nobody is interested enough to post a comment. I was especially disappointed with the first chapter of Elementals. It was very hard to write, even more because I had to work with a deadline that happened to be on the same days as my finals. It was difficult and very frustrating but I also had fun with it. I think I learned a lot and I thought I was doing a good job and had lots of stuff the people could talk about. I could hardly wait to see it go up. And what happened? A few people said "It was Tygon.", then it was announced that it indeed was me who wrote it and then... nothing. And I thought it was really good.

And then, when I look at other stories... okay, there are lots of people here who can write a lot better than me, almost everybody. Still there are a few where I just feel kinda betrayed. I tried to keep everything in Victoria & Tygon realistic. I wanted it to be a story that could actually happen. At points I had to struggle hard to maintain realism but I think I did.

But then I see characters like Jake Mackelroy or Elija Khan. Both are from my point of view unrealistic. Jake does martial arts and swordfighting. He has mastered the latter to the point where he can fight BLIND and I still don't belive that one can do such a thing without training hard his entire life (if it is possible at all) and I mean HARD. Like 6 hours a day 6 days a week. But Jake not only has a job, a social life and plays RPGs (what takes up a LOT of time too) he also has the time to do the police's work.

With Khan it's similar he has mastered several martial arts styles to the point where he is allowed to teach them and while I'm far from being an expert there I'm sure it takes several year for each. He had a family which without any doubt took a lot of time (for him I at least hope it did; if not it was not a good family). Finally, he is a doctor med. I could be wrong but don't you need to study for that? A lot?

I'm sorry to tell you guys, but the day has only 24 hours. I can't see where these character found the time to learn and do all this, unless they found a way to live without sleep.

Anyway, take a look at the stories these two characters are protagonists of. Both are very successful. Now look at me and my stories. Things like this make me want to scream. I thought realism was the right way but it seems like I was wrong there. People seem to prefur to read about unrealistic characters.

Most times I ask people about them they say they like my stories and that they are really good. I would hate to think that they just say that because they don't want me to be sad but sometimes I get exactly that feeling, not because they sound like that but because they seem to be the only ones who like my stories.

I will keep trying. Perhaps some day I will find what I do wrong but I'm running out of ideas.

Sorry

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Fishburne
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMEN!

Ty, only two people remarked on SFO.
Write for the fun it gives you!

And please, can we see some more V&T????


Fish

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Concolor
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tygon wrote:
Okay, this is my first vent. I feel myself getting majorly depressed again and I also begin to be very agressive in discussions over the forum.


Is that why Mara is so hell-bent on my immediate demise? Laughing

Seriously, though, depression is nothing to kid about, at least not with the one who is going through it. My dear wife is bipolar, and her 'low' states can be pretty scary.

Tygon wrote:
Note: feel free to post your opinions and/or comments to my rants here.

If I offend anybody, sorry about that.

Special apologies to the two who have already heard this. I'm sorry, my friends, but I just have to say it again here.

I really don't get what I do wrong.


You don't understand what you are doing wrong because (as far as I can tell) you aren't doing anything wrong, story-wise. Trying to detect what isn't there can be very frustrating.

Tygon wrote:
Everytime I think I've done a good job with a story/chapter I'm proven wrong because either nobody reads it or nobody is interested enough to post a comment. I was especially disappointed with the first chapter of Elementals. It was very hard to write, even more because I had to work with a deadline that happened to be on the same days as my finals. It was difficult and very frustrating but I also had fun with it.


And having fun with it is the key. I'd write whether or not anyone else ever read my scribbles, just because it's that much fun.

Tygon wrote:
I think I learned a lot and I thought I was doing a good job and had lots of stuff the people could talk about. I could hardly wait to see it go up. And what happened? A few people said "It was Tygon.", then it was announced that it indeed was me who wrote it and then... nothing. And I thought it was really good.


Correct. It was quite good, as is practically everything you've written that I've read.

Tygon wrote:
And then, when I look at other stories... okay, there are lots of people here who can write a lot better than me, almost everybody. Still there are a few where I just feel kinda betrayed. I tried to keep everything in Victoria & Tygon realistic. I wanted it to be a story that could actually happen. At points I had to struggle hard to maintain realism but I think I did.


Yep. Again, it's a beautiful job. You get inside their heads, and take the reader along for the trip.

Tygon wrote:
But then I see characters like Jake Mackelroy or Elija Khan. Both are from my point of view unrealistic. Jake does martial arts and swordfighting. He has mastered the latter to the point where he can fight BLIND and I still don't belive that one can do such a thing without training hard his entire life (if it is possible at all) and I mean HARD. Like 6 hours a day 6 days a week. But Jake not only has a job, a social life and plays RPGs (what takes up a LOT of time too) he also has the time to do the police's work.


Ehn. Never thought of it that way. There's a man I attend church with, a judo and jiu jitsu master, who can engage two opponents while blindfolded, but that is without weapons. However, he is in his fifties, he HAS practiced all his life, as you stressed, and doesn't do much else.

Tygon wrote:
With Khan it's similar he has mastered several martial arts styles to the point where he is allowed to teach them and while I'm far from being an expert there I'm sure it takes several years for each. He had a family which without any doubt took a lot of time (for him I at least hope it did; if not it was not a good family). Finally, he is a doctor med. I could be wrong but don't you need to study for that? A lot?

I'm sorry to tell you guys, but the day has only 24 hours. I can't see where these characters found the time to learn and do all this, unless they found a way to live without sleep.

Anyway, take a look at the stories these two characters are protagonists of. Both are very successful. Now look at me and my stories. Things like this make me want to scream. I thought realism was the right way but it seems like I was wrong there. People seem to prefur to read about unrealistic characters.


Hmm. Well, since my stuff is very blatantly science fiction, I'm afraid I don't have any leeway to comment. However ...

If you look at the success of the James Bond films, that might give a clue about your point. In the latest one, Mr. Bond would have been a greasy smear several times over, if normal physics operated in his world. He rides out the artificial formation of an iceberg, manages not to even get nicked by many hails of bullets, and goes swimming in the Arctic ocean without a wet suit. And never mind the hyper-convenient, hyper-tortured plot twists that allow him the luxury of showing up where and when he wants to. It's as far from reality as you can get and still be a live-action movie on this planet. Yet the public laps it up. Bleah. Go figger.

Tygon wrote:
Most times I ask people about them they say they like my stories and that they are really good. I would hate to think that they just say that because they don't want me to be sad but sometimes I get exactly that feeling, not because they sound like that but because they seem to be the only ones who like my stories.


Huh. Okay. Let me just say this about that. We are quite a rarified group here, you know. There are maybe a dozen and a half folks who read my stuff, and typically a lot fewer who comment on the chapters. If I depended on fan mail to prop up my self-esteem, I'd have jumped off a bridge by now. Wink

James has an enormous following for the Zig Zag Story because of several factors (not the least of which being the stellar quality of the writing, but it is not the only one). His main character has a fandom all her own due to MBR's talent and efforts. James has more exposure than most of us, and a personal bulletin board, and he manages it well. Pretty much ditto for Chris. So it's really an apples-and-oranges situation.

Tygon wrote:
I will keep trying. Perhaps some day I will find what I do wrong but I'm running out of ideas.

Sorry


"Lookin' for love in all the wrong places ..."
Sorry, Ty, but I still don't think you are 'writing wrong'. There are probably many reasons for lack of response to a chapter. After I posted the chapter in which the demon-possessed maniac wolf was introduced, that portion of the forum experienced the loudest lack of feedback I had ever not heard. And it puzzled me. But I just can't seem to stop writing, so I guess I'll have to feed the disease. Laughing

Maybe you should ask yourself why you write. My brother puts it this way: "Life is what I put up with until the next chance I get to sit down and write." He writes because he is a writer. He's been doing it on commission for eleven years, and having to take other jobs because he couldn't make ends meet just by writing, which is humbling for a writer. But he never stopped. And now he's starting to see enough different jobs that he can live off of his words. It took him over a decade, which he says is typical of "overnight success stories". There ain't no such thing.

We all go through droughts. It isn't fun, but it's part of life. We are here for you -- here to listen, and to help where we can. Not that I think my ramblings have much you can use, now that I read back over them. Ick. I don't mean to waste your time. Sorry. Embarassed

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Cateagle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be brief - what Concolor said. I can echo him about depression, because my dear Mrs. Cateagle is also bi-polar and her lows can get scary without her meds.

Given some of the "colorful" characters I'm acquainted with, I never considered Jake or Khan that outlandish (though I suspect there's more to Khan's background than we know); but then, I've some unusual acquaintances (as Kinsfire can attest from Baen's Bar). Still, I do see your point and I've tried to make Lee plausible (what's annoying is folks saying certain things about him are totally implausible - when I've taken them directly from my life Wink as Lee is roughly 80% autobiographical).

Anyway, I certainly find your writing good and enjoyable, not lacking in anything. If I didn't, I would not have agreed to a certain venture we've discussed.

As for feedback, I don't remember getting all that much on any of my story segments, either. But then, I'm writing this because I enjoy it - just like most of the others here.

I dont' know if this helps, but feel free to ask for any clarifications you wish.

All my best,
Cateagle

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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, I'm not sure if I'm one of those two you mentioned or not - we've had some similar exchanges, but not precisely along those lines. I've already sent a private message, but let me say this publically.

Tygon, you're one of the writers I follow as closely as I can. You write exceptionally well, developing characters to the point that I feel I know them. I desperately want to read more about Victoria and Tygon, and I've been holding off on starting "Broken Highway" because it wasn't complete yet. (Didn't want to start yet another story that I'd be hanging on by fingernails for the next installment.)

Um... don't know if this is on topic or not, but I'm going to go ahead and bring it up for consideration anyway. Do you happen to have a mailing list for when you release new chapters?
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Kinsfire
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking points in no specific order:

Depression - I understand completely. I'm fighting one now, although something good looks like it's on its way, so that will cut off one of the things feeding it, but I'm wondering if 9-11-2001 is finally catching up to me. (Stressed even more than the lay-offs at work should have made me (I'm still working), an inability to write for the longest time, and a much greater likelihood of being affected by things that could make me cry. Things like that.) I'm working at it, and I'm trying to find a counselor that my health insurance might cover.

Enough of that.

Stories - Sorry, I'm gonna be a cruel, heartless bastard here. I write Serina because I can't NOT write it. Sometimes I get comments on the chapters, but it seems that usually I don't. There are chapters or sections that I'm positive will get a response, and all I hear is crickets chirping in the backyard. Hell, sometimes it gets so quiet that it seems you can hear the crickets fart.

I think I've seen every writer we have here ask for comments in one way or another - merely asking, cajoling, and at least once I've seen a guilt trip, and a threat to end the story if there weren't more comments. (For the life of me, I can't remember who it was, and I don't care, to be honest.)

Here's where the heartless bit comes in. If the only reason you're writing Victoria and Tygon is for accolades, then close it down now. (I'll miss it, because I'm attracted to Victoria more than I am to any other character any of us write. (Yeah, even more than I am to my own characters.))

For various reasons, we all have a tendency to not comment when a story comes out - some of us because we want to avoid the "Me, too" syndrome, some because we don't get around to it, and many other reasons. Hell, I personally have taken to reading most of the stories in chunks now, waiting until multiple chaters are available, because I'm running ragged, time-wise. (I read ZZtS about a week ago, and had to catch up on more than a few back chapters.)

I truly hope you don't end V&T, but if the only reason you write it is to see people tell you how wonderful it is, then you need to stop writing it now. (As I said - I'm cruel and heartless. I have to take back the bit about being a bastard - my folks were married. Smile )

I know it was just you venting, and I hope this didn't seem like I was angry at you, and spouting flame out of every available orifice. (Wouldn't THAT be a sight to see? Shocked Laughing Shocked ) But I'm hoping that I might make you think about it a little. My stories will continue, even if I'm the only one reading them, because my muse will beat me with whips and chains if I don't, and I'm not into that scene, personally.

Hyper-skilled characters - Ah, well, there you have me now, rabbit...uh, Tygon. I tend to chalk it up to simple necessity of the story. We've got Concolor's, where some of the characters are telepathic with the animals they descended from. Hell, Jake talked to the wolves that way, I think. If it's a world where telepathy of that power is possible, then I allow that he might also have the power to learn skills better and faster than the average fur. Jake seems to be something of a furry Doc Savage, only without the misogyny. (I think I mis-spelled that...)

Hell, Serina has a character that I'd have problems with, if it weren't such an obviously sci-fi world. Serina. She's a geek's wet dream: hyper-sexy, hyper-intelligent, and willing to talk to other geeks. So, I've tried to humanize her a bit - give her some faults. Not too good at that yet...

##############

I've taken to rambling at this point, considering it's 3:22 AM here on the East Coast of the USA, and I've been awake since about 7:00 AM. I'm going to close this down now. Hope I didn't offend people too much.

Kinsfire

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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tygon, I really like what you are writing and I've read most if not all of it. So please keep doing it, at least as long as you enjoy doing it.

If there is one problem with your writing, it is that it takes too long for the next chapter to appear. Wink
I don't know how much feedback Chris or James got when their stories were at chapter 4 or so, but I imagine that it not nearly anywhere as much as they get today.
And, from my own experience, I'm amazed how much response I get, at least to some chapters. Then, sometimes the next chapter gets a lot less responses.

As far as "super" characters go, I don't think it makes a lot of difference as far as the story goes. If it fits the story, then it is ok, but it is not really something that makes the story better. I like Khan's story not so much becaues of the main character as because of the other characters.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everybody for their kind and supporting words.

I know that I have overstretched a few points in my vent and ignored others. Of course I know that is takes me far too long to come up with new chapters.

Still, I need to say all that and I needed to say it that way. Otherwise I would break down under the pressure some day. Happened one time before to me and I don't wish to repeat the experience.

Now I'll try to answer some of your comments.

For all who are afraid that I will stop V&T, I won't. Not now, at least. Only now I finally was able to give the story an actual plot and I have still ideas I want to use for it. It would be foolish to stop now. Chapter 5 is next on my agenda. I'm blocked there though and it could be that chapter 5 of Feline Destiny will get out first.

Galadron, no, I don't have a mailing list. Since there never seemed to be much interest in the story I never bothered setting one up. This is also the first time somebody asked about one.

Concolor, no, Mara is not after you because of my depressions. That was a joke and never intended to be more. I would never have thought that you would pic it up.

With agressive discussions I was referring to my rather unfriendly responses regarding the collector's edition of Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately I'm not very good at getting my agressions back under control once I let them loose, even if it's only a bit.

I like to say about myself that I write for the story's sake. It is true that my stories are only very little planned. By now that has changed a little but in the beginning all three stories were just ideas and I had no plot at all. As said, for V&T I only recently developed a plot. You say you want to see how my stories go on? Well, me too. normally just for that I would have continued writing but I find it getting harder and harder. When I look at other stories... yes, I am jealous. I envy other authors for their success.

I know that these authors are better than me and therefor deserve more attention but I'm doing by best here and not getting resonses is a bit frustrating. Of course, nobody paid me to do this, nor did anybody asked me to write a story. I neither ask people to read my stories so I really can't demand feedback.

And yes, even with your assurances that I'm a good writer I still say that lots of people here are better than me. Chief among these is Concolor, who I think is the best writer around here. Pflarrian is a lot better than me too. Both of these have written my own characters better than I could ever do. Shirh Khan, Galadrion, Nameless and Cateagle are only a few others whose writing abilities I admire and I hope I can write on one level with them one day.

Maybe I am a good writer. I have difficulties saying it because of my insecurities and because I was taught that one does not play compliments to himself. It stinks.

It feels good to know that my work is apreciated. Thank you all.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tygon wrote:
I like to say about myself that I write for the story's sake. It is true that my stories are only very little planned. By now that has changed a little but in the beginning all three stories were just ideas and I had no plot at all. As said, for V&T I only recently developed a plot. You say you want to see how my stories go on? Well, me too. normally just for that I would have continued writing but I find it getting harder and harder. When I look at other stories... yes, I am jealous. I envy other authors for their success.


I know, actually, where you're coming from, Tygon. I know where Serina ends, but Ghod alone knows the route it'll take to get there. My latest surprise in Chapter 19 (on sale now in...sorry...Laughing) came out of left field. I realized that it would help me with the plot later on. Originally, though, it wasn't supposed to have happened.

Hell, if I'd stuck with my original plotting, the story would end next chapter. (Not even close to that now, folks.)

I apologize again if my response seemed too harsh, concerning your writing. I remembered what my wife said to me at one point a while back when I was in a funk about my writing, and reiterate it when I hope it will do some good.

One last point. I think every writer looks at his own stuff as worse than the other writers out there. I keep thinking that my stories are nothing compared to stories like Khan's, or Galadrion's, or yours. Yeah, yours. You have a way of writing things like V&T and FD that just grab me. The only reason I'm not always up to date on various stories is that I simply have not had the time or inclination (that depression I was mentioning) to keep up with so many writers. I'm behind in just about every story on the Bookshelf except my own. (For obvious reasons... Smile )

I'm rambling again, and I don't have the excuse of it being oh-dark-hundred, so I'm gonna shut up now.

Kinsfire

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It feels nice to be listed among the authors you feel to be better than yourself, Tygon. Smile

But, I don't really think I am "better" than you. I don't really think of myself as a good writer, but I'm a good reader. If I've read my own chapter and am satisfied with it then I guess it is not too bad.

But there are some things that I'm not good at, some of those are not that visible to you. I really admire your ability to write lots of different stories, work on these round-robin type of stories. This is something I don't know if I can do, or do well.
If I get an inspiration, then I can run with it, but to write under a deadline or something like this, I don't know if I can do that.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tygon wrote:
Thanks to everybody for their kind and supporting words.


Am I allowed to add my two cents' worth? Actually, nevermind, I'll add it anyways.

Quote:
I know that I have overstretched a few points in my vent and ignored others. Of course I know that is takes me far too long to come up with new chapters.


I've seen worse. I'm still waiting for the second book of a trilogy to come out. The first book came out in 1990 or so. Wink

Quote:
Still, I need to say all that and I needed to say it that way. Otherwise I would break down under the pressure some day. Happened one time before to me and I don't wish to repeat the experience.


That's good. Not wanting to be depressed is half of what you need to fight it. Smile

Quote:
Now I'll try to answer some of your comments.

For all who are afraid that I will stop V&T, I won't. Not now, at least. Only now I finally was able to give the story an actual plot and I have still ideas I want to use for it. It would be foolish to stop now. Chapter 5 is next on my agenda. I'm blocked there though and it could be that chapter 5 of Feline Destiny will get out first.


Ahem, Woo-hoo! Now I must wait patiently... Pfui. I don't like waiting.

Quote:
Galadron, no, I don't have a mailing list. Since there never seemed to be much interest in the story I never bothered setting one up. This is also the first time somebody asked about one.


I'm sorry, this is going to sound really, REALLY stupid, but what is a 'mailing list' in this case? Confused

Quote:
Concolor, no, Mara is not after you because of my depressions. That was a joke and never intended to be more. I would never have thought that you would pic it up.


I thought it was rather funny, myself. Smile

Quote:
With agressive discussions I was referring to my rather unfriendly responses regarding the collector's edition of Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately I'm not very good at getting my agressions back under control once I let them loose, even if it's only a bit.


^..^? I think I missed this one.

Quote:
I like to say about myself that I write for the story's sake. It is true that my stories are only very little planned. By now that has changed a little but in the beginning all three stories were just ideas and I had no plot at all. As said, for V&T I only recently developed a plot. You say you want to see how my stories go on? Well, me too. normally just for that I would have continued writing but I find it getting harder and harder. When I look at other stories... yes, I am jealous. I envy other authors for their success.


You shouldn't. Your writings are, as I have said many, many times (both to you and to another fur who shall remain nameless {Josh... Wink }), that you don't give your work the credit it deserves.

Quote:
I know that these authors are better than me and therefor deserve more attention but I'm doing by best here and not getting resonses is a bit frustrating. Of course, nobody paid me to do this, nor did anybody asked me to write a story. I neither ask people to read my stories so I really can't demand feedback.


Well, actually you can demand feedback, you just might not like the answers. I'm not getting too many responses save for those here in the forum, really. I think I get two emails a chapter. One from you, Tygon, and the other from Mike and/or Chris Regan.

Quote:
And yes, even with your assurances that I'm a good writer I still say that lots of people here are better than me.


I still think you don't give yourself enough credit. Fact of life: For everything you can do well, there will ALWAYS be someone better at it than you. This is especially true in popularity contests, but you shouldn't let it get you down. Instead, strive to succeed anyways. I mean, look at me! I've got two wargaming armies, one for sci-fi, one for fantasy. My sci-fi track record is 2-38 (as in two wins, 38 losses!), and my fantasy record is currently 0-11, but I keep at it anyways. The important thing isn't to become depressed because someone else is better than you, the important thing is to have FUN! It is only if you stop having fun with it that you should consider doing something else, and I think, deep down inside, that you still believe writing to be quite fun.

Quote:
Chief among these is Concolor, who I think is the best writer around here.


I'm not going to argue that one.

Quote:
Pflarrian is a lot better than me too.


I'll agree to that for fantasy, but you're still tons better than I am at sci-fi, or I wouldn't be asking for your advice regarding "Tails", would I? Actually, you're also a lot better than I am at adding realism to a story. I sometimes make an attempt, but I don't think I could write a truly realistic story to save my life. Mind you, I haven't tried yet, but I don't really want to.

Quote:
Both of these have written my own characters better than I could ever do.


^..^? Somehow I doubt that. Trying to write the parts for Mara or Tygon (the Spirit of Rage) is a royal pain in the tail for me. I have to try to force my mind into their personalities, and it takes a LOT of work to get it to sound even remotely close to the personalities you've developed for them.

Quote:
Shirh Khan, Galadrion, Nameless and Cateagle are only a few others whose writing abilities I admire and I hope I can write on one level with them one day.


I wouldn't mind collaborating with any of the other writers in the forum, personally. However, when it comes to real-world type character development, there are a lot of other furs who have me beat paws-down. The characters in V&T are a lot more realistic than any of the characters I've created to date, or at least *I* think they are.

Quote:
Maybe I am a good writer.


Yes, you are. I keep telling people this sort of stuff but no-one ever listens to me. I wonder why?

Quote:
I have difficulties saying it because of my insecurities and because I was taught that one does not play compliments to himself. It stinks.


Welcome to the club. I kept writing Otherworlds through chapter 10 or so out of sheer boredom. I've kept at it for the same reason. I have to keep myself mentally occupied or I can't sleep at night.

Quote:
It feels good to know that my work is apreciated. Thank you all.


You are very welcome. Don't give up yet, Tygon (please? I want to know what happens next in V&T!)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Still, I need to say all that and I needed to say it that way. Otherwise I would break down under the pressure some day. Happened one time before to me and I don't wish to repeat the experience.


That's good. Not wanting to be depressed is half of what you need to fight it. Smile


Even if it seems different at times, I don't like being depressed. The problem is that when I'm depressed I often don't want to be cheered up either. Damn depressions. I really don't like them.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Now I'll try to answer some of your comments.

For all who are afraid that I will stop V&T, I won't. Not now, at least. Only now I finally was able to give the story an actual plot and I have still ideas I want to use for it. It would be foolish to stop now. Chapter 5 is next on my agenda. I'm blocked there though and it could be that chapter 5 of Feline Destiny will get out first.


Ahem, Woo-hoo! Now I must wait patiently... Pfui. I don't like waiting.


I'm afraid you'll have to wait longer. I'm ashamed to report a major block in V&T. I tried for an entire week but I can't write for it. I don't know what's wrong. I hope I haven't lost my onnection to the story Sad

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Galadron, no, I don't have a mailing list. Since there never seemed to be much interest in the story I never bothered setting one up. This is also the first time somebody asked about one.


I'm sorry, this is going to sound really, REALLY stupid, but what is a 'mailing list' in this case? Confused


Like the Raccoon's Bookshelf News. An email I would send out when there is something new about V&T to everyone who wants to get it.

This was the first time somebody asked about it so I never considered setting one up.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Concolor, no, Mara is not after you because of my depressions. That was a joke and never intended to be more. I would never have thought that you would pic it up.


I thought it was rather funny, myself. Smile


So did I. Unfortunately I'm feeling a bit uninspired at the moment. That's why it's taking me so long to reply.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
With agressive discussions I was referring to my rather unfriendly responses regarding the collector's edition of Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately I'm not very good at getting my agressions back under control once I let them loose, even if it's only a bit.


^..^? I think I missed this one.


Look at the Two Towers topic under Everyday blither-blather. The thing about the collectors edition hit me right after my vent and my agression picked it up instantly.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
I like to say about myself that I write for the story's sake. It is true that my stories are only very little planned. By now that has changed a little but in the beginning all three stories were just ideas and I had no plot at all. As said, for V&T I only recently developed a plot. You say you want to see how my stories go on? Well, me too. normally just for that I would have continued writing but I find it getting harder and harder. When I look at other stories... yes, I am jealous. I envy other authors for their success.


You shouldn't. Your writings are, as I have said many, many times (both to you and to another fur who shall remain nameless {Josh... Wink }), that you don't give your work the credit it deserves.


Maybe you're right. Unfortunately I somehow can't give myself credit for things easily. It seems like bragging to me and I don't like that at all.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
I know that these authors are better than me and therefor deserve more attention but I'm doing by best here and not getting resonses is a bit frustrating. Of course, nobody paid me to do this, nor did anybody asked me to write a story. I neither ask people to read my stories so I really can't demand feedback.


Well, actually you can demand feedback, you just might not like the answers. I'm not getting too many responses save for those here in the forum, really. I think I get two emails a chapter. One from you, Tygon, and the other from Mike and/or Chris Regan.


I haven't gotten any emails regarding V&T since chapter 2 was posted and most of these come from people that have read the chapter 1 that is still posted on Rava's site (I at least think that is still is there).

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
And yes, even with your assurances that I'm a good writer I still say that lots of people here are better than me.


I still think you don't give yourself enough credit. Fact of life: For everything you can do well, there will ALWAYS be someone better at it than you. This is especially true in popularity contests, but you shouldn't let it get you down. Instead, strive to succeed anyways. I mean, look at me! I've got two wargaming armies, one for sci-fi, one for fantasy. My sci-fi track record is 2-38 (as in two wins, 38 losses!), and my fantasy record is currently 0-11, but I keep at it anyways. The important thing isn't to become depressed because someone else is better than you, the important thing is to have FUN! It is only if you stop having fun with it that you should consider doing something else, and I think, deep down inside, that you still believe writing to be quite fun.


Yes, I still belive writing is fun. And I hope it always will be for me.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Pflarrian is a lot better than me too.


I'll agree to that for fantasy, but you're still tons better than I am at sci-fi, or I wouldn't be asking for your advice regarding "Tails", would I?


Maybe I'm better at the sci-fi details (although I begin to doubt that due to my inability to give you decent advice for "Tails") but there still is the general writing where you are better than me.

Pflarrian wrote:
Actually, you're also a lot better than I am at adding realism to a story. I sometimes make an attempt, but I don't think I could write a truly realistic story to save my life. Mind you, I haven't tried yet, but I don't really want to.


I think the last chapter of Otherworlds was quite normal and realistic. And it was good.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Both of these have written my own characters better than I could ever do.


^..^? Somehow I doubt that. Trying to write the parts for Mara or Tygon (the Spirit of Rage) is a royal pain in the tail for me. I have to try to force my mind into their personalities, and it takes a LOT of work to get it to sound even remotely close to the personalities you've developed for them.


Well, there is the problem. You did a lot for the personalities of these characters, at least for Mara. If I would write about her she still would be the cold blodded killer she was in "Road". Thanks to you she not only got a set of morals but also a much more desirable character. In fact, I'm thinking about handing the copyrights for her over to you.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Shirh Khan, Galadrion, Nameless and Cateagle are only a few others whose writing abilities I admire and I hope I can write on one level with them one day.


I wouldn't mind collaborating with any of the other writers in the forum, personally. However, when it comes to real-world type character development, there are a lot of other furs who have me beat paws-down. The characters in V&T are a lot more realistic than any of the characters I've created to date, or at least *I* think they are.


Otherwords is a fantasy story and Tails a sci-fi story so that's difficult to compare. I think that your characters are, if not realistic, are believeable and very well written characters.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
Maybe I am a good writer.


Yes, you are. I keep telling people this sort of stuff but no-one ever listens to me. I wonder why?


I can only repeat, I have difficulties to give myself credit for things... seems like I have a massive selfesteem problem.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
I have difficulties saying it because of my insecurities and because I was taught that one does not play compliments to himself. It stinks.


Welcome to the club. I kept writing Otherworlds through chapter 10 or so out of sheer boredom. I've kept at it for the same reason. I have to keep myself mentally occupied or I can't sleep at night.


I started most of my stories because there wasn't anybody else who would write them.

Pflarrian wrote:
Quote:
It feels good to know that my work is apreciated. Thank you all.


You are very welcome. Don't give up yet, Tygon (please? I want to know what happens next in V&T!)


I won't give up. I'm too far into it to give up now.

Again, sorry to disappoint you with V&T. That will take longer, much longer than I hoped.

I know it maybe won't help much but the next chapter of Feline Destiny is coming along nicely. Should be done soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nameless wrote:
But there are some things that I'm not good at, some of those are not that visible to you. I really admire your ability to write lots of different stories, work on these round-robin type of stories. This is something I don't know if I can do, or do well.
If I get an inspiration, then I can run with it, but to write under a deadline or something like this, I don't know if I can do that.


Really? Well, I think my tendency to write lots of different stories is more a curse than a blessing. I've often thought of stopping one of my main stories to I can devote more time to the other two. The problem is, I like these three too much. I don't want to stop any of them.

Regarding the round-robin stories, again, I take too long to write up my contributions. Chapter 7 of Broken Highway took me over half a year to finish.

With the deadlines... chapter 1 of Elementals was the first time I ever wrote under a deadline. I think it actually helped. The pressure makes me work harder and usually better on something.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinsfire wrote:
I know, actually, where you're coming from, Tygon. I know where Serina ends, but Ghod alone knows the route it'll take to get there. My latest surprise in Chapter 19 (on sale now in...sorry...Laughing) came out of left field. I realized that it would help me with the plot later on. Originally, though, it wasn't supposed to have happened.

Hell, if I'd stuck with my original plotting, the story would end next chapter. (Not even close to that now, folks.)


My problem is that I don't do much planning with my stories. Both, V&T and Trapped Cat started as more or less silly ideas. With Feline Destiny there was a bit more planning (in the sense that I at the starting point already had an end planned out) but not much. By now Trapped Cat is the most planned story I have with Feline Destiny following closely. Since a week or two I have a plot idea for V&T... but I'm afraid it takes away the realism I'm striving for.

Kinsfire wrote:
I apologize again if my response seemed too harsh, concerning your writing. I remembered what my wife said to me at one point a while back when I was in a funk about my writing, and reiterate it when I hope it will do some good.


It was probably the best thing you could have done. I think a few hard words was one of the things that I needed.

Kinsfire wrote:
One last point. I think every writer looks at his own stuff as worse than the other writers out there. I keep thinking that my stories are nothing compared to stories like Khan's, or Galadrion's, or yours. Yeah, yours. You have a way of writing things like V&T and FD that just grab me.


Thank you. Please tell me when you know what it is the grabs you. I would like to know.

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