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Concolor
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 832
Location: South Carolina
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 Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:04 pm Post subject: Paradox |
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It could be that what you have here is a divergence.
Maybe I'm reading too much OUT of the previous chapters, but it seems to me that when Tabitha got hit, there wasn't much else already going on. The driver who hit her was slowing for the stop light, ergo her lesser damage. The driver who hit Richard was apparently traveling at or near the speed limit, 35mph in most downtown areas, which would definitely mess him up the way it did.
If there had been an accident thirty seconds prior to Tabitha's arrival, and IR had hopped in and retrieved the body, you can bet it would have taken a HECK of a lot more than the remaining twenty seconds to unsnarl the resulting confusion. We're talking abandoned cars, gridlock, furs fleeing in panic, or something like that. So, in my humble and admittedly uninformed opinion, the car that hit Tabitha could not have been at the intersection when she arrived! 
So ... if it was not there, she did not get hit. But she did! She went through all that accident-hospital stuff. The best way out of this paradox seems to hinge on divergent timelines. And if that IS the way things play out, Richard is still alive somewhere ... er, somewhen?
Or am I missing something? Is there a better way (invoking Occam's Razor) to weasel out of this predicament? 
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Nameless
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1368
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “Can you compensate?” Badger asked irritably.
The tech shrugged. “Maybe. That kind of variance is outside the design tolerances. I don’t think we can guarantee an accurate arrival time if the power curve keeps doing that.” |
I'm pretty sure Richard did not arrive at the point in time he wanted to. And there is nothing written in the story that he even arrived at the same place as Tabitha.
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Fishburne
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Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Posts: 596
Location: Plano, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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VERY GOOD POINT!!!
Not sure if its even the same dimension...If the Brunner effect stands.
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ChrisFoxx
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Joined: 19 Mar 2001
Posts: 1056
Location: Eau Claire, PA USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Nameless wrote: | | Quote: | “Can you compensate?” Badger asked irritably.
The tech shrugged. “Maybe. That kind of variance is outside the design tolerances. I don’t think we can guarantee an accurate arrival time if the power curve keeps doing that.” |
I'm pretty sure Richard did not arrive at the point in time he wanted to. And there is nothing written in the story that he even arrived at the same place as Tabitha. |
I was kind of expecting it to be implied 
Tabitha miscoded the time and destination algorithm for the module; that's why she ended up where she ended up. The reason she got knock down and Badger got killed was because Tabitha had the fortunate happenstance of appearing and walking out after the signal had turned red and traffic was slowing to a stop; Tabitha was hit at maybe 5 mph, give or take a mile. When Dr. Badger walked through, traffic was free-flowing. So yes, it was a different car that hit him; one earlier than Calvin's.
Hope that helps some!
Chris |
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TVDAVE
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Joined: 11 Feb 2002
Posts: 238
Location: RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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But , now that Sabrina is there, will Tabitha take her to see Chris, , and if so how will Chris react if she does, cause knowing Sabrina , she is going to ask about him , and want to see him , as proof....  
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TVDAVE
Site Owner
Joined: 11 Feb 2002
Posts: 238
Location: RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Pay no mind to my post above , but here is a thought, Sabrian is now In Tabs time frame, if thats the case she never died, she never married Cris, Alan does not exist, , and if tab takes her to see chris, what will he say , Hey you vanashed years ago, because she was taken out of the time line from back then , oh what a paradox, and if Chris and her never married , who will chris be with now????? now my brain hurts
Standing by   
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Reporting live and transcribed from the
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Elfen_Furry
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2601
Location: NYC NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Nameless wrote: | | Quote: | “Can you compensate?” Badger asked irritably.
The tech shrugged. “Maybe. That kind of variance is outside the design tolerances. I don’t think we can guarantee an accurate arrival time if the power curve keeps doing that.” |
I'm pretty sure Richard did not arrive at the point in time he wanted to. And there is nothing written in the story that he even arrived at the same place as Tabitha. |
Since it was Tabitha's cube that was used, all frames of time and space should have been equal. With an adjustment of -30 seconds to intercept her, but keeping with the same location, I believe it to be the same spot where Tabitha was hit is the same spot in space where Richard was hit. Only differnce being the time differential.
However the variance is something to consider. What effects does it invoke or involve and where/where does the Brunner Effect kicks in? Aye, there's the rub.... |
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Elfen_Furry
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2601
Location: NYC NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Too bad I cant edit my posts at work.... so I have to submit another...
| Nameless wrote: | | I'm pretty sure Richard did not arrive at the point in time he wanted to. And there is nothing written in the story that he even arrived at the same place as Tabitha |
I'm pretty sure that no one knew where exactly Tabitha landed when she went through, hence, Richard was not sure of where he was going either. The time seemed to be right, as was the space, but the time was all wrong.
Jumping blindly into time portals seem to be the wrong thing to do; as no one knows where they are going to land and what's going to be there when they get there. Can you imagine- setting up the time machine for the 110th floor/observation deck of the WTC on 9/12/01? My- that would be a disaster within itself.
Or as Bugs & Tweety used to say, "Watch that first step... its a loo-loo!" |
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James
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Joined: 20 Nov 2000
Posts: 8
Location: The Fortress of Solitude
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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There's no logical way Badger arrived at the same place Tabitha was to arrive at 30 seconds later.
We know that Richard gets clobbered by a car and there is at least a 2-vehicle collision as well. From the time Richard arrives to the time I.R. leaves with him is right at 30 seconds or longer.
If Tabitha arrives at the same location, then she will see Richard and I.R.. At at the very least, it is unlikely that Tabitha would be hit by a car herself since all traffic would likely be stopped entirely because of the accident.
If Badger arrived 30 seconds prior to Tabitha, then whatever effect he had on the timeline would be experienced by Tab when she arrives. There is no mention of an accident (except hers) when Tabitha does arrive so we can deduce that their arrival locations were not the same. |
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Concolor
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 832
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| James wrote: | There's no logical way Badger arrived at the same place Tabitha was to arrive at 30 seconds later.
We know that Richard gets clobbered by a car and there is at least a 2-vehicle collision as well. From the time Richard arrives to the time I.R. leaves with him is right at 30 seconds or longer.
If Tabitha arrives at the same location, then she will see Richard and I.R.. At at the very least, it is unlikely that Tabitha would be hit by a car herself since all traffic would likely be stopped entirely because of the accident.
If Badger arrived 30 seconds prior to Tabitha, then whatever effect he had on the timeline would be experienced by Tab when she arrives. There is no mention of an accident (except hers) when Tabitha does arrive so we can deduce that their arrival locations were not the same. |
Absolutely correct! But the question remains: did the (for want of a better term) "tidal" effects of Tabitha's previous journey cause a shift in the physical location of the exit side of the temporal wormhole, in the same timeline? Or is this an entirely different timeline?
That's what has me confused.
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James
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Joined: 20 Nov 2000
Posts: 8
Location: The Fortress of Solitude
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Concolor wrote: | | did the "tidal" effects of Tabitha's previous journey cause a shift in the physical location of the exit side of the temporal wormhole, in the same timeline? Or is this an entirely different timeline? |
I'm operating (and writing) under the assumption that it's the same timeline. The physical displacement was an unexpected side effect of the first temporal disturbance (remember the power variance?).
Of course, if Chris has a different idea about what happened then he and I are out of sync and have been writing two different plotlines into the story. That would be bad. |
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Concolor
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 832
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmmmmmmm.........
Chestnuts and Conundra. We shall simply have to wait and see.
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Oddly enough, my life is based on a true story. (Ashleigh Brilliant) |
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Elfen_Furry
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2601
Location: NYC NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| James wrote: | | Concolor wrote: | | did the "tidal" effects of Tabitha's previous journey cause a shift in the physical location of the exit side of the temporal wormhole, in the same timeline? Or is this an entirely different timeline? |
I'm operating (and writing) under the assumption that it's the same timeline. The physical displacement was an unexpected side effect of the first temporal disturbance (remember the power variance?) |
First, some things need to be clarified.
a) Is that street a 2 way street?
If yes- then there is a possibility that Richard was hit by a car that was going in the other direction opposite to where Tabitha was struck from. Space between the 2 actual spots can be as little as 12 ft between them or as far as 40ft, depending on many lanes separate.
b) Was it near an intersection?
Tabitha could be struck on one side of the interection and Richard from another, again- separation being only within just a few feet to several dozen feet.
Both would support both individuals being struck by cars an a relativiely short amount of time within the same area without the flow of traffic being impeded by either accident.
c) The "Time cube" was set for the same area, same time, when it was decided to set it for 30 seconds before. Only the time was changed, not the location.
If you're dealing with tme travel, with a device that will randomly place you in places other than where you want to be, then it is a dangerous device. In my past posting- the planet earth moves in its axis and around the sun, as well as the sun around the galatic core- thus any attempt for time travle must take these into account or else you will end up floating in space when you do the actual time travel.
d)The variance could might as well shift the location, but due to its time difference between the two travels- perhaps, in my eyes, just a few feet; just enough to place somebody far away enough to be in another lane or path of traffic, but on the same street. It could have been on the sidewalk, but further up the sidewalk, or be materialized inside a building's wall, or 1000 ft up in the air. The cube's location setting was set to a specific vacinity of a location, not the exact location. What happened, happened in the street. According to the cube's location setting. This would support a or b. It would also support the same timeline. How many unrelated multi-accidents have you seen with in the same intersection or opposite sides of a 2 way street? Here in NYC- its n everyday occurance.
Now- lets say, if Richard was not hit by a car, and wound up on the sidewalk instead, He would then have to get his bearings, see the temporal opening for Tabitha, run the distance to get her, and run back to get her through the first temporal openning, which he would have to find. Remember, there were 2 opennings for Richard, one to send Tabitha back with and the other to send himself back with. So within the same area- there were 2 opennings, soon to be 3...
Who's to say that they lined up evenly? Of if they did, side by side or opposite to each other, that the path they created went through the path of that street, taking up a couple of lanes each? What is the portal was smacked in the middle of and parallel to the street? Then you would have a car hit Richard, then fly into the 21st century.... followed by other cars, and more cars... all smashing inside the tiny space of the lab... until someone shut the machine off!
You tell me? Time time is not a science on convience... one wrong move, well lets say what happened to Richard was Damn Luck because it could have been worse. Following my scenero, in the worst case, Richard could have ended up on some train tracks with the 905-AmTrak to Miami 3 seconds before impact right behind him and it jumping into the worm hole that was lined up with the tracks just right and crashing into the lab! Oh, did I say train? How about Delta Airlines Flight 438 to Pheonix- a fully loaded 747! Imagine that crashing into the lab!
Time Travel does not always deal with time itself, it also includes location, placement and orientation. OK, both Richard and Tabitha were have gotten to their proper respected locations without incident, they would have still missed each other if their backs were facing each other. Tabitha had a running start, as did Richard, so 2 running individuals heading in opposite directions... on a busy street... They would have missed each other.
Vicinity was right, location was off by feet, not miles. Time was set within seconds of each other. If its going to be played out right, than things have to add up.
Which means, as I concluded before- If Richard is going to live, he first has to die. The Cube must be set for vacinity of location, or another trip through time to rescue Richard will end up unfulfilled because the rescuer must have to deal with traveling to an unknown location to find Richard from an unknown location from where the rescuer started from. But if the cube drops the rescuer within the vacinity of both accidents, then the rescuer will be able to save Richard with "Time to Spare" to get Tabitha, or perhaps watch her get hit by the car as she steps out. |
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ChrisFoxx
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Joined: 19 Mar 2001
Posts: 1056
Location: Eau Claire, PA USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| James wrote: | | Concolor wrote: | | did the "tidal" effects of Tabitha's previous journey cause a shift in the physical location of the exit side of the temporal wormhole, in the same timeline? Or is this an entirely different timeline? |
I'm operating (and writing) under the assumption that it's the same timeline. The physical displacement was an unexpected side effect of the first temporal disturbance (remember the power variance?).
Of course, if Chris has a different idea about what happened then he and I are out of sync and have been writing two different plotlines into the story. That would be bad. |
When Tabitha arrived, the accident hadn't happened.
When Badger arrived, he disrupted the timeline, meaning that Tabitha would indeed come out in the middle of it. But since it hadn't happened when she'd jumped before, we have no written record of it; it would mean starting the Story all over again and showing Tabitha walking into the aftermath of it all.
Since that would end up dragging the Story down a bit, we're going to know in our heart of hearts that that's what happened, and only imagine Tabitha's confusion at the terror in downtown Columbus 
Chris |
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James
Registered User
Joined: 20 Nov 2000
Posts: 8
Location: The Fortress of Solitude
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| Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I just found out from Chris that we've been writing divergent plots for the Tabitha story. I think the best way to fix things is to edit out most of what I've written and re-post the chapters. |
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