Planetfurry BBS

[Toric]

Alrighty. After religious debate, political debate, and other high tension topics, how about another?

Computers.

I'm going to be buying a new computer (FINALLY!!!!!!!) soon. So far, after a token effort at shopping, here's what I've come up with.

1.7ghz AMDAthlon XP 2000+
Epox 8K3AE Mainboard
512mb DDR RAM
120gb 7200rpm Western Digital HD with 8mb cache
GeForce 4 4400 Titanium 128mb video card
Creative Labs Live Value 5.1 sound card (speaker system pending, likely a 5 piece deal)
CDRW 40x12x48 (brand name is Liteon)
16x DVD-ROM
Choice of 56k modem or LAN card
Windows XP Home ed.

$1275.00

Any comments, ideas, suggestions? This rig will be put together by a local store, and is not one of the "big name" computer places like Dell, Compaq, or Gateway. It will have warrenties and such, I believe 1-3 yrs, depending on the component. The store also offers some fairly attractive financing options.

My question is, anyone's opinion on my choice of components, fairness of the price, etc.

Or, maybe I'm just bragging... who knows. ^.~

[Elfen_Furry]

Although I'm strictly a Mac Man (who's forced to use windows, linux & unix), I think you can save on 1/2 the price if you build it yourself.

Go to:
http://www.tigerdirect.com
and check out the prices.

There are other sites too, and I hope the other furs will post them.

And they (to my friends who's used them in NYC) have a good relationship with GOD (Guarenteed Overnight Deliveries).

[Toric]

Well, each is entitled to his or her own opinions, especially those on PCs Vs. Macs Vs. etc.

I'll just say, in the friendliest way possible, mine differs from yours on Macs. ^.^

As for buying a computer online, I don't plan to. Perhaps I could save a ton of money, but I don't want to go through the hassle.

A computer is one of the more complicated electronic devices around, with many components. There are a significant percentage of the components made that will arrive and not work, purely the fault of the manufacturer, the seller, or even the deliverer. Some places, you're just out of luck. Others, you can send the faulty piece back for a refund, replacement, or repair. This takes time.

Having someone else, paying them to build one for me, menas the machine will be built, and tested before it arrives, and will significantly lower the likelyhood of one or more components simply not working.

Yes, I could buy all the components for cheaper, and build it myself. I've built quite a few computers, taken my own apart many times, and helped friends fix theirs. I'm no stranger to the guts of a computer, nor am I afraid of them.

However, I do not want to go through the additional hassle of relying on the postal service, or other delivery method. I do not want to pay the money I save on the computer to shipping and postage costs.

Now, if there is a computer already assembled, with equal or better components than what I listed for less than the price listed, that would interest me.

PS: I'm also well aware of tigerdirect.com, and a few other sites. I recieve email regularly from tigerdirect.com, with ads on some pretty tempting deals. If I decide to upgrade, I'll probably do it trough them. ^.^

[Bearion]

Here's an opinion.

The price looks good for what you are getting.

I'm not personally familiar with the Epox motherboards. I looked up the 8K3AE and it has some nice specs, including USB 2.0 built in.

My only bias is with WD harddisks. Of the 8-10 drives I've had fail personally and at work, all have been WD drives. They do have a great warranty, but I cried real tears when I lost my 30 gig last winter...and I was just about to back it up too... The 120GB with 8mb buffer is a real screamer tho.

The only suggestion I could make is to order low speed, quiet fans. Some of the heat sinks have these 7,000+ rpm screamers that can set the teeth on edge after a while. They have low speed case and power supply fans too. It's a small thing that may add a few $$.

Good luck!

[Kit Fox]

sounds like a pretty nice rig your gonna get there. lots of luck with it. sadly im a little short on cash to be buying a new computer now, but the one i have is good enough for what i use it for. a few games, typing, getting online. just the basic everyday necessities.

[SkunkFox]

Ok Bearion's right about the WD HD's, Maxtor 100gb 7200rpm hd is your best bet for a good HD, also consider what type of tower you'll be using as well, some towers like the open/clear sided towers alow better cooling with the installation of a secondary fan on the side. I'd recommend the Colliger aluminum tower with the opening side panel for instant access to your componants. Plus they look cool!

as for Video Cards I use a Ge Force 2 Nvida 128mbddr with S-tv outlet it's a good little card to have, though the 256mb cards are out now...
I won't recommend any boards, but the 2.0 gig boards are fairly priced now.
GameMuse XL would be your best bet for an excellent sound card, it includes everything you require.
For DVD go with Utopia's 16x dvd player, or a combination drive DVD-r instead of getting both seperately, it's cheaper in the long run anyway.
A good Motherboard should already have both network and modem built in, as well as the 2.0pci slots.
Windows 2000pro would be a good idea since not many componants are XP ready just yet, or go with XP home either will suit your purposes just fine.
Some mother boards will allow you to upgrade your memory all the way to 1.4 gigs 2 512mb slots, as well as let you add upto 64 additional megs of ram for video buffering. But you'll have to search for the newest motherboards to get that.
Consider using a pentium 4 processor instead of an AMD processor, they have a tendincy to overheat rapidly.

SkunkFox

[Toric]

Hmmm.... I'lldo a little more shopping on HDs, although I have never had any problems with WD, I've only owned two HDs by them (both worked like champs).

All the fans are going to be low speed types, and I believe there was an option for a case with a plexiglass side panel. BTW, the power supply will be 300w for now. Will upgrade if I start to fill the case with more.

The board is a good one. The dealer didn't mention the onboard USB 2.0, in fact I think it only had USB 1.?. As for the memory slots, well it can handle up to 3 1ghz DDR dimms, for 3ghz of DDR RAM. ^.~ And, he has pci cards with two USB 2.0 ports per, for $40.00. Any thoughts on that?

While I'm thinking about it, andyone know of any good deals on sound system hardware? I'm leaning towards something fairly good, subwoofer and 4-5 satelites. I'm not particularly heavy into fine details of speakers, and am not familiar with their specs. I pretty much want something that sounds good, but won't jack the price up too high.

[SkunkFox]

Alcatel is an exceptional good 4 sat with sub system, though it's a hundred dollars unless you shop around that is. Goto both best buy and curcuit city *this works trust me* and get them to compete against each for the lowest price on the system, once you have that take it to FRY's and they'll bet that price into the dust or in some cases give you the system for free. (rare cases like if they can't beat the crap out of the price you got it too)

SkunkFox (good Motherboard for the memory!!)

[Toric]

hmmm.. I think there is a best buy... and a radio shack nearby. In order to get to the others, I's have a 1.5-2hr drive to get to springfield or st. louis. For the speakers at least, I'd think online might be the best route... I'll look around for the Alcatel.

Seems tigerdirect.com is refusing to load any pages... must be down at the moment.

[Nameless]

Consider looking for silent fans, especially on the video card. There are only a few companies that use reasonably silent fans on the video cards though.

Also consider getting a bigger power supply right away. Even if the supply is nominally big enough, it may not handle peak loads well, leading to those mysterious crashes nobody is able to diagnose.

[Fishburne]

Sounds like a nice machine overall

Two tips: Bigger Power Supply and no WD Hard Drives

The MB should come with USB 2.0. Don't spend the extra cash on USB boards until you are sure you need it.

3 GB of DDR memory is a bit of an overkill, since most of the time you won't see an increase in computing power. To have that much memory is a bragging thing. 512 will do just fine. 1 GB will rock. 2GB or 3GB is negligible unless you are computing huge numbers for NASA. or computing JBird's whereabouts for the ongoing sponge / pillow war.

Great Speakers are a must for Gaming. I like my headphones for music use.

AVOID TIGER DIRECT.

[Rava]

I work in a smaller computer store (asst manager)

If you are paying by piece it is a good price but only because of the video card if you are paying in CAN prices. If thats Americain call me I can get you a way better price even with Shipping!!!!!

AMD - Hate to say it but this one time P4 chips are worth the extra money with the rest of the equipment you are getting. The multimedia abilities of the P4 out preform that of the AMD atholon XP chip. The other thing you want to keep in mind is AMD burns hotter then P4. You are going to need a case fan.

MB - They are giving you a cheaper board. I'd check and see how many PCI slots it has. Also double check it has that AGP port and if it is capible of supporting 4x AGP speeds.

HDD - 120 is not worth the extra money unless you are a video editor ect... You'd be better off with a Maxtor 80 ect. WD is loud comparitively and Maxtor is slimlined. That helps keep it cooler and live longer.

GF 4 Ti 128mb - Dont know much about this card yet. Although I know they are VERY expensive.

Sound - We sold these cards only for a little while. Never had any problems with them. Good sound quality. Make sure they give you the digital cables for inside and that the MB supposrts digital in. Most still dont.

CDRW - Liteon has been around longer then most people know. They are a manufacturer that is selling their own stuff now instaed of to HP, Phillips and I/O magic.

DVD - 16X isnt the max rigth now but I might see if they will give you a combo drive instead of both of these drives. Less power drain on the P/S

Modem or Lan - Both are less then $20 Can.

P/S - I recommmend at least a 350 Watt P/s but I'd try more for a 400 or 450.

Win XP - I cant say enough about how I hate this OS but for most users it's good.

Together I can get it for about that price plus taxes. Maybe a P4 2.0 instead for that price.

[Nameless]

Rava, hate to contradict you, but:

CPU: AMD does not burn that much hotter than P4, it's only a few watts either way. With AMD, it's a bit trickier to set up the cooler correctly, but if they do that at the shop anyway, it's not a problem for you. And buying AMD has one advantage: It keeps the competition alive.

MB: The MB seems ok, 6 PCI, AGP 4x, ... you can check the details at http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8K3AE&lang=1
or look for another one at http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard-products.asp?socket=socket%20a&lang=1
If you want to have Lan or USB 2.0, check if another of the boards that has it included is a better deal. (of course you can also check those from another company, but the differences are usually minor)

HDD: You have to know how much you need. But mine fills up pretty quickly.

CDR and DVD: Most of the combo drives are not as good as the separate ones, and they are not cheaper as well.

Video: Do you need a lot of 3-D performance ? If this is not very important, a GeForce 4 4200 is only a little slower than the 4400 but quite a bit cheaper.

And one other thing that really makes a difference: Mouse, Keyboard and Monitor.
Don't skimp on these, in normal practise, these make a big difference. Find something that you are comfortable with. Don't just buy the cheapest.

[Toric]

Alrighty. I'm only buying 512mb of ram, but in the distant future, if my needs warrent it, I have room for up to 3gb.

As for the CPU, I see I have someone of similar mindset in Nameless. I would buy AMD, even if it cost a little more than intel, simply because I greatly dislike that company. The newer AMD chips do not burn much hotter than intel, and usually compensate with a better heatsink/fan anyway. And, from what I've read, the current Top-end AMD chip (not necessarily the one I have on my list above) is better in all respects, speed, multimedia, etc. than the p4. and cheaper. It is simply a better chip. Sources for this info are third party testers that run benchmarks... I don't remember their name.

As for a combi drive... it is far more expensive to buy a combi than to buy a seperate dvd and cdrw. Also, buying them seperately allows for better performance in both.

and, to ease peoples minds about heat... there will be fans on the cpu, the video card, the hard drive, the case itself, and possibly even the sound card (not sure on that one ^.^). I'm also contemplating getting rounded "ribbon" cables, and whatever my fevered little mind comes up with.

Hell.. Shaun wants to buy a sealed cryogenic case for an extra couple thousand. Creates the best cooling possible, and a clean-room effect. I'm plenty satisfied with fans.

Ok.. back to the hard drive. I will check on other brands, but I do want space. I used to be of the mindset that I could never fill up a 20gb hard drive, but after seeing Shaun's full, I know I'd want more on mine than even he has, so I'm willing to spend the bucks for a bigger drive. I'd always been told WD was good, but I've also heard maxtor and seagate are too. Any other preferences out there?

On to interface devices. I am going to skimp on these, because I already own a good monitor, which will tide me over for now. I have an NEC 17" that I bought a few years ago. It's served me like a champ while I had a computer. I'll upgrade it when prices for flatscreens fall to a comfortable level. I already own an uber-mouse. I bought myself a present just before taking my flight back to the US. I bough an Intellimouse explorer optical mouse with wheel acting as programmable third button, and 2 additional programmable buttons on each side of the mouse. I do not want a cordless, as I don't like the idea of changing batteries all the time. My keyboard will be a good one too, one with plenty of extra, programmabel buttons to play with. Silent keys a must also.

aaaaand the video card. I'm not going to shell out for the top-of-the-line, but I do want a beefy card. I plan on playing plenty of games, including one particularly graphics intensive game known as everquest. I'd like to be able to play with all the cool effects on. ^.^

that said... Rava, if you can offer me a better deal (that is in american), email me your number, and we might be able to do bussiness.

[Tygon]

lemme know how much the end price is. I might want one too