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| Think this article gets it right? Choices are: |
| True! |
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60% |
[ 15 ] |
| False! |
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16% |
[ 4 ] |
| I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO! @_@ |
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24% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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Tygon
Site Owner
Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 2497
Location: Isernhagen, Lowersaxony, Germany
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't change the fact that I personally have not yet met a single, nice French person, even though I admit that i have only visited a small part of the country.
Maybe it it not outright hate but if so many people agree about a strong dislike of the French it can't be all unfounded, can it?
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ICG
Registered User
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I strongly doubt in the results of that 'survey'. There were no numbers of participants mentioned nor the questions itself. You know, you can fake a survey by manipulating the questions. Like "Tell me what you hate on xyz" - that makes everyone who answers automatically to someone who hates xyz. You get the point?
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Tygon
Site Owner
Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 2497
Location: Isernhagen, Lowersaxony, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, as it said in the article, they did not ask what people hated about the French but what they thought about them. Also, the French's arrogance is a matter of fact. They are actively banning non-French words from their language and make up new ones to replace them.
Anyway, I said my opinion which is based on personal experience and as far as I am concerned that ends the discussion. If you think differently, fine. It is your right to do so.
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ICG
Registered User
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Tygon wrote: | | Well, as it said in the article, they did not ask what people hated about the French but what they thought about them. |
Well, that's what they told. To build up my own opinion, I'd like to hear some facts, like exactly what they really asked, whom they asked and how many ppl took part in the survey, also some statistics about who took part on it.
Anway, a survey you don't even get the questions and the statistics of it is completely useless and doesn't say anything at all.
| Tygon wrote: | | Also, the French's arrogance is a matter of fact. They are actively banning non-French words from their language and make up new ones to replace them. |
Yes, I know about that, many call that arrogant, I just call that stupid and ignorant, it isolates them instead of 'preserving the culture of the language'.
| Tygon wrote: | | Anyway, I said my opinion which is based on personal experience and as far as I am concerned that ends the discussion. If you think differently, fine. It is your right to do so. |
Thank you - but my replys were not intended as a personal issue against you, nor was it my intention to change your opinion. 
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Aslaug
Site Owner
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1861
Location: Slagelse, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Tygon wrote: | | Also, the French's arrogance is a matter of fact. They are actively banning non-French words from their language and make up new ones to replace them. |
This makes them arrogant...why?
Iceland has done that for as long as they've been independent. Actively replacing all foreign words with icelandic ones, since they want to preserve their language rather than see it dilluted by english slang and whatever else. They've had great success with it. Personally, I don't see this as arrogance. I see it as extremely prudent and intelligent measures in a day and age where languages are overlapping so badly it can be difficult to understand people of one's own nationality at times.
I don't see it as arrogance to want to protect ones culture or language.
What I see as arrogance it is coupled with unwillingness to learn about OTHER cultures or languages, or when it's twisted into a kind of "Our way is better"-thinking.
And frankly, I refuse to believe the french are any worse when it comes to -that- than any other nationality. |
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Vee Are Are Schee
Mini-Boss
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 943
Location: sneaking in dark corners
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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<.< I'm going to get shot for saying this, but...
...
... I always thought France was pretty cool.
*hides in a cardboard box* |
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Aslaug
Site Owner
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1861
Location: Slagelse, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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*patpats* No need to hide. You're quite welcome to feel that way. Personally, I don't think France is any more or any -less- cool than any other nation.
This entire string is really about one thing only. Reaffirming prejudices. It can't be said simpler than that. Confirming "I don't like *insert name of nationality here* and that's perfectly alright because they really ARE stupid!".
What boggles -me- is that people can't see the inherent irony in that. |
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Tygon
Site Owner
Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 2497
Location: Isernhagen, Lowersaxony, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I apologize for it but I believe firmly in globalization. It's the only possible way to go.
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Aslaug
Site Owner
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1861
Location: Slagelse, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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And a hundred years ago, Tygon, Socialism was the only way to go.
A hundred years before that, Mercantilism was the only way to go.
You're quite welcome to your beliefs and opinions of course. But when you say "it's the only way to go"...I'd like to put up a paw in protest. To me, it's not the only way to go.
To each their own. |
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Joshua Fox
Administrator
Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 898
Location: The Canadian Rainforest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Heh. As diplomatic as ever, I see
Not having ever been to France myself, I can't really put any definitive mark on the issue, but from what I've read of comments so far it would seem that the majority of the French people are not those spoken about with contempt for the most part. Typically, though I may be wrong here, it appears that Parisians are the ones who bring up the majority of these negative stereotypes: unfortunately it is they who are usually thought of when the term 'French' comes up 
| ICG wrote: |
Well, that's what they told. To build up my own opinion, I'd like to hear some facts, like exactly what they really asked, whom they asked and how many ppl took part in the survey, also some statistics about who took part on it.
Anway, a survey you don't even get the questions and the statistics of it is completely useless and doesn't say anything at all. |
A valid enough point, certainly, and one well worth pursuing. In fact, why not write the Telegraph and ask? If nothing else, you'll at least get their take on everything behind the article 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk
| Quote: | | Yes, I know about that, many call that arrogant, I just call that stupid and ignorant, it isolates them instead of 'preserving the culture of the language'. |
More or less my opinion on the matter as well. Actually that's one of the things I rather like about the English language: easy enough to learn grammatically, but the vocabulary is ever constantly growing 
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Sigurd Volsung
Registered User
Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 3216
Location: The Twin Cities
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Actually Joshua English is considered one of the hardest languages to learn because of the volcabulary, too many words that are spelt the same that have complelely different meanings, multipile ways of dealing with plurals and on and on.
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Joshua Fox
Administrator
Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 898
Location: The Canadian Rainforest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sigurd Volsung wrote: | | Actually Joshua English is considered one of the hardest languages to learn because of the volcabulary, too many words that are spelt the same that have complelely different meanings, multipile ways of dealing with plurals and on and on. |
True and, actually, that was my point (though I'm with you all the way as far as double-meanings go). As a writer, I get one heck of a lot of choices in how I want to say something; it's just finding the 'correct' way that's the trick. I've found that to be somewhat less true when coming across Romantic languages, but I agree with my old Philosophy Professor's sentiment that "Anything sounds more impressive in Latin".
But then again I spent years learning Spanish and now I can only link a few phrases together. Even worse off with French, though my German and Russian seem about as tuned as they were in years past (which means if stranded in either place, I know roughly enough of the language to order from a McDonald's )
As I recall, France has been having a particular problem in terms in computer technology, since many of the terms associated with it are distinctly English. Never did find out what word they use for "e-mail' while I was in Quebec. Any of you techies run into that problem with French-speaking folk?
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Cateagle
Site Owner
Joined: 20 Nov 2000
Posts: 1004
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Aslaug wrote: | A two dimensional article at best.
I disagree that Europe is "uniting in hatred" against that particular nation. I for one felt like taking a drink in celebration when they voted "no" recently. The same went for the dutch...but do you read any articles about Europe uniting in hatred against them?
I don't hate the french any more than I hate the Greek, Italians, Spaniards, Englishmen, Germans or anyone else.
I think, in fact, that hate is a childishly overused word. It's like hearing two kids in the schoolyard declaring undying hatred for one another. Ten years later they don't even remember each other.
So...the french, if described by five words, would be described in negative ways all over Europe. Fine. Sure. You know what? I -believe- it.
Let's see what people say about the English if asked the same way? My guess is "Pompous, arrogant, stuck-up insular megalomaniacs".
Or the Swedes? Oh good Gods, don't start me on the Swedes. The one thing everyone in Scandinavia can agree on is that Sweden should be barred off from the rest of the world to save us from the Swedes. "bad haircuts" is probably the expression I hear the most.
Germans? Well, out of respect for my german friends, I shall kindly refrain from repeating the nonsense that is usually spread about Germans when they aren't present, and simply remind them that many people have sixty year long memories...even if they're only in their twenties.
Italians? Hmm...the words "Religiously intollerant, unintelligent, emotionally overblown pizzabakers" play a prominent part in many people's perception of them.
Danes like myself? Oh, we have too high thoughts of ourselves, we suffer from an insufferable case of "bessermachen" (and for those unfamiliar with the term, it means we think we can do everything better than everyone else), we're backwards and overly rural.
The lists go on and on.
This article is only proof of one thing. Namely that despite all shouts and calls for "European unity" and "Togetherness" or even the much vaunted "brotherhood", we all think the others are a bunch of retards who should spend more time listening to us. Wether "us" is "French", "Germans", "Englishmen", "Danes", "Greeks" or whatever else.
Wake up and smell the coffee please... |
*Chuckle* Aslaug, that sounds remakrably like how some states in this country percieve other states. It doesn't hinder working together though, most of the time.
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Tygon
Site Owner
Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 2497
Location: Isernhagen, Lowersaxony, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Joshua Fox wrote: | | But then again I spent years learning Spanish and now I can only link a few phrases together. Even worse off with French, though my German and Russian seem about as tuned as they were in years past (which means if stranded in either place, I know roughly enough of the language to order from a McDonald's ) |
Which is not very hard for a few years ago McDonalds equaled all the names of their products world-wide. Meaning, if you say "BigMac" everyone in every McDonalds in the world will understand you.
The only problem are to be fries, which seems to have a different name in every language.
Anyway, from personal experience I can say that English is a lot simpler than German, at least in matters of grammer. But that's not the topic of this treat.
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ICG
Registered User
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Tygon wrote: | | The only problem are to be fries, which seems to have a different name in every language. |
To come around that, you can tell them the number - or simply order a meal 
| Tygon wrote: | | Anyway, from personal experience I can say that English is a lot simpler than German, at least in matters of grammer. But that's not the topic of this treat. |
*nods in agreement* A lot of folks (Swedes, English or US folks) I got to know who started to learn German hate it and don't want to speak it again - just because of the grammar.
But sometimes it's the grammar which makes it a hate-issue, i.e. the 'arrogant' about the french, so I guess it's still on-topic.
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