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Outragious
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Should this profesor be fired?
Yes
56%
 56%  [ 14 ]
No
28%
 28%  [ 7 ]
Can't make up mind
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 25

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PrincessB
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 3070
Location: south of Nashville, Tn

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I have to say is;
"Human beings can always be relied upon to assert, with vigor, their God-given right to be stupid." -Dean Koontz (drat cant remember the book now)

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DomesticWolf
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Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 457
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thane wrote:

No, fire him for academic dishonesty. Fire him because he lied about his ancestry in order to influence his credentials and academic record. Ward Churchill claimed to be part of an American Indian tribe, and used that claim to lend credence to his "studies." He's no Indian, though - his "membership" was based upon and "proven" by a gag card that one tribe handed out to non-tribal people as a joke, some 20 (? - not sure of the exact timeframe) years ago.
Fire him not because his words were shameful to the college, but because he lied to his peers and to his employers, in order to influence his credibility.


There we go. Now I say fire the moron. I hate myself for suggesting it, but Use the system, pay the game, and get rid of him for something that can not be used to his advantage. "Lied on his application" is enough to get anyone fired anywhere.

Ths supervisor at my work was supposed to be fired. It took a week to get paperwork. 2 days before he was gonna get fired, he puts in a workmans comp claim. Now he can't be fired because it can be argued as 'retribution' for the claim. What kinda dumb shit is that?

Sorry, I get to go in to work early today because he is incompetent and can't be fired...

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Thane
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Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it can be proven that the paperwork to fire him was started before he ever put the workman's comp claim in, he can still be fired. It'll just be a bit messier. If it can be shown that he filed a fraudulent claim in order to keep his job, even better - that's one more reason to fire him.
Be patient; it sounds like the guy's just digging a hole for himself. It might not be immediate, but it will catch up to him.
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DomesticWolf
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Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he will. Our corprate office just decided to wait until he does even the slightest little thing wrong. And he just broke a rule when he slept in late today.

I was using it as an example of the buerocracy(sp) screwing up how things should work.

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Styx
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
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Location: West Covina, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just My opinion but those with political agendas should not be permitted to teach.
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Kyrin
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about freedom of speech and firing or not firing someone in a teaching position over it.

Here in Santa Barbara County they did just that to a teacher whose job it was to teach government history/politics. Why? Because he is a Democrat and stated his opinions to the class regarding his views. They asked, he answered, some kids told their parents what he said, complaints were filed and then the school fired/relocated him. Now he is teaching at a new school and no longer teaching the subject of Government history.

Community response average...outrage...most did not feel that it was right to do this to him, though some did. So the outrage was two sided, some that he should have been fired altogether, and others that moving him was wrong.

I personally feel that teachers are already hemmed in too much in this country. Not allowed to teach the Declaration of Independance because it's a racist document!! That's frigging crazy! But they did it, it's banned. Same with To Kill a Mockingbird, and several other pieces of traditionally taught literature.

This country wasn't built on sunshine and happiness, our society didn't spring out of the ground fair, equal and respectful of other's rights and belief systems. Wish it did, but it didn't. To leave out our history is to sentence us to repeat it. Our kids need to know the past and how we were so they can choose to be better. If we shelter them from knowing about how we cheated the native peoples of their homes, of how we enslaved other races, of why we demanded independance from England, are we really teaching them about America? I don't think so.

Teachers aren't being allowed to teach....hence why I changed my career choice, was originally going to teach, but I would refuse to be told what I can teach, so I'd have gotten fired in my first year. cause I would teach my kids what I felt they should know and what would serve them best, versus what the "sheep producing commitee" said I should.

This guy has a right to his opinion, but his methods of introducing them to the public is extremely offensive. Someone should muzzle him with some well placed verbal slams...a few good debaters who are good at putting people in their place and shooting holes in faulty logic should be launched at him at his next speech.

This guy is giving Freedom of Speech a bad name, and pushing people's buttons just to be obnoxious...what is he trying to do, get people to want Freedom of Speech killed? He's the Nazi...he's working towards influencing people to want to control and direct others in this case him, but still ...this is a bad precident. If they stop him...what is to stop them from shutting down another person stating unpopular beliefs? Once freedom of speech gets knocked down for one case it is only a matter of time before it happens again, until stating your beliefs becomes something that gets you arrested.

Best we could do really is ignore this guy completely...stop going to his class, stop talking to him, stop listening and giving him credence, stop writing articles. If he is being universally ignored how is he going to make his speeches? I'd suggest a universal boycott to him. If the public turn their back on him he's gonna run out of steam. Imagine everyone walking out of a building every time he walked in, or the whole room repositioning themselves so they have their backs to him, before long he'll get the message his words are not wanted and he'll stop.

Just my $.02 worth.

Kyrin
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Styx
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
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Location: West Covina, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here I think the parents over reacted, but I also believe it was improper of the teacher to discuss his views and positions. As a teacher he or she is in a position of influence over their students, if asked what their position is the teacher should inform the student that their (that is to say the teacher's) views is not relevant and that the student must take the information and form their own views.
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Thane
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Joined: 31 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styx: I must disagree with you. If a student prompted the teacher for the teacher's opinion, then it is the student attempting to learn, not the teacher attempting to influence. If nothing else, it helps the students recognize the teacher's own bias and preconceived ideas. Even if someone attempts to present the facts and not their own opinions, those opinions will, more often than not, influence how the facts are presented to some degree or other. Recognizing the teacher's opinions can help the students identify how those opinions have shaped the presentation of the facts. It is entirely relevant.
That being said, there is still an imperative for the teacher to attempt to distinguish fact from opinion in his own lessons, to make his lessons as objective as possible. But it is foolishness to assume that opinion can be entirely separated from the lesson, and the sooner that opinion is recognized, the sooner the facts can be seen and digested by the students.
Also, simply having the facts is not enough. One must learn to think, to process those facts and put things together. Asking the teacher's opinion helps the students learn how to do this, how the teacher put facts together. Teachers certainly should not be the only source for this learning to think, but they are a source.
I know I'm starting to beat a dead horse, but as one last example, look at Charles Fort. He attempted to take bare facts and put them together, without learning how others had put those facts together. As a result, he came to some pretty bizarre conclusions. Part of this was because he did not have all the facts (didn't ask questions), and part is because he had not learned to recognize and separate opinion from fact; he had not learned how to think properly.
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RenaBhaLL
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styx wrote:
Just My opinion but those with political agendas should not be permitted to teach.


everybody has a political agenda--even if it's just a personal one. the trick is being aware of it and not letting it get in the way of doing your job to teach objectively--like my psychology professor who also happens to be a priest.
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hikaru
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Joined: 20 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freedom of speach is guaranteed.

Freedom to teach isn't.

Give 'em the axe.

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Shadu
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Location: Barranquilla

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did not hear the speach and i don't know how he put it. even if i got a writen copy it wouldd not do. there could be a logical point he's stressing in there though he did go overboard with the comparison.
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Henry_Hound
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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Location: Somewhereville, MO

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually a lot of this revolves around an essay Churchill wrote a year or two ago, in which alot of the remarks were made. I read part of it. I had to stop due to the fact that it was making me physicaly sick. But for those who may want to read it for themselves I'm posting a link to it. http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html

In my opinion fire him for anything but what he's saying and make sure those reasons are well known to everyone so he can't come back and say freedom of speech. But either way he'll come out saying his first amendment rights were violated.

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Rava Purr-Fox
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't go both ways.... Either you have freedom of Speech or you don't.

Just because he disagrees with the 'powers that be" doesn't mean he should lose his job. It's an opinion and it is up to people to read it and agree or disagree or even choose to not read it at all. Thats what freedom of speech means. It's the Americain first amenment (sp?) and that means it is a right that is given to all and most likely will never be overthrown. In order to strike it down someone would have to breal the ammendment anyway.

Like it or not people would love to shutdown PF based on the same types of 'disagreement' with our lifestyle.

How would you like to have your job threatened for being a Furry? *been there and done that personally*

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Kyrin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would you like to have your job threatened for being a Furry? *been there and done that personally*[/quote]

That's bogus!

My boss thinks I'm weird, but would never fire me over it. I even show him sketches now and then, his wife likes my art the most though. But then I have cool bosses...and coworkers too for that matter.

Course I do my job and do it well, that could have something to do with it, but they have a solid policy of what you do on your own time is your business, not theirs. Not to say they aren't curious, cause I really think gossiping is their hobby, but they don't let it affect your job.

Kyrin
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DomesticWolf
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Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sirya Black wrote:
Like it or not people would love to shutdown PF based on the same types of 'disagreement' with our lifestyle.

How would you like to have your job threatened for being a Furry? *been there and done that personally*


I can only imagine, And hope that I never face a similar situation. I doubt My self control could weather the storm.

Given the information I can find, it sounds like he is preaching a complete bias to his classroom. In my book, that warrents termination. I agree with free speech. However, doesn't some of this fall under slander or attack of character against those dead in the towers and their families? If it doesn't it must be a razor thin line he walks. Unfortunately, no publicity is bad publicity, and its extreemists that always get a message out. After all, I only found the furry fandom through the defacement of it. I may never have known had people not been so vocal about hating it.

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