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Outragious
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Should this profesor be fired?
Yes
56%
 56%  [ 14 ]
No
28%
 28%  [ 7 ]
Can't make up mind
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 25

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Henry_Hound
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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Location: Somewhereville, MO

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:34 am    Post subject: Outragious Reply with quote

You've probably seen this in the news by now But here's a few articles on a Ward Churchill

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/02/09/colorado.prof.ap/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146858,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146256,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146066,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146039,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145871,00.html

I'm not going to post my thoughts on it right now. But I will definately try to keep from doing something ileagal.

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DomesticWolf
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright. IMO, this does fall under free speech. I completely disagree with the moronic way he voices his opinion. However, He has been under the radar for years trying to be publicly respectful (I doubt 'respect; is the right word, but that is how it seems). He wrote his paper and voiced his opinion. Years later, he, for whataever reason, is now becoming more vocal about it. No, I voted that he not be fired. The problem lies with the sheep who take his word as truth automatically. It's the same problem on all sides of all issues.

One of those articles said something along the lines of "He shouldn't be fired because it would set a bad precident." This is what it comes down to. If he gets fired, then he can turn around and get someone who Has an oposite opinion Fired for voicing it.

I say find someone who knows what they're talking about and have a debate, no help, no list of questions ahead of time. A true honest debate would probably see Churchill make himself out the fool with no help at all.

Although, If i met the guy, I'd probably want him shot. I can't stand stupid educated people (which is how he comes off to me).

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anthony
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He called those who worked and died in the towers for 'little Eichmanns'?
He calls them "technocrats" who participate in what he calls repressive American policies around the world.

So, the Japanese bankers who died worked for the US government?

And the architects who had offices there, too?

This 'professor' is nothing more than a populist and hatemonger and has nothing to do at a Univeristy, much less lead a faculty there.

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Henry_Hound
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's the dilema. I can't make up my mind. On one hand you have him hiding behind freedom of speech. But the thing is he's using it to try and teach students and other's that are easily influenced to hate Amerca and Americans. I've heard on on radio report that he was asking his students to come up with bigger better attacks than 9/11. If that's true then he should be fired and tried for sedition at least, I would prefer treason, because he is one of the terrorists and is trying to help them. He was also saying that everyone who is outraged at this took it the wrong way. I want to know how him saying that the people in TWC buildings were nazis was supposed to be taken. As a joke Evil or Very Mad . Sorry if we don't laugh but noone else finds it the least bit funny. And for once I'm glad to see lawyers as I believe there are several lwasuits being filed against him by family members of the victims of 9/11. I hope they clean him completely out and garnish all his wages until he is no longer among the living.
But then you come back to freedom of speach. Acording to the first amendment he can say what he wants.

He also makes remarks on Germans and Jewish people as well that make me mad and surely infuriate others.

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anthony
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, freedom of speech doesn't cover libel or slander.
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Henry_Hound
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe he's using freedom of speech properly, but he is trying to hide behind it. And that's what's making it difficult for him to be fired. But then as DW said if the fire him he'll go after someone with oposing views and try to get them fired, and it'll start up a whole bunch of debates and scandals. But yes I would like to see him in prison for what he's saying, but I don't know that it'd come to that or how far it can be taken.
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Jbird
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Churchill's office.

This says more than I ever could, and more poignantly.

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Thylo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this man sickens me. nothing but constant babble. I've seen 2 of his students on tv before (forgot if it was the o'reily factor or scarburough country) and they were totally brainwashed, said something along the lines of "he just taught us that if we would stop killing their children then they wouldn't attack us"
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Vee Are Are Schee
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, because, you know, people trying to make their way in the world deserve to die because they never thought about the people they were hurting. Gas station attendants should die too, because they're contributing to hurting the entire PLANET. So do the truck drivers who deliver the fuel.

People like him should die because he will only cause massive conflict. In fact, ALL humans deserve to die, because they, through a wide cause-effect chain, hurt one another. The only way to be safe is to kill every single damn human. Don't worry, they all deserve it.

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The Gryphon
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard of this guy.

He should not necessarily get fired. Free speech is free speech. He can teach whatever he wants ... that doesn't meant that there's someone holding a gun to people's heads making them listen to what he says. Let him give his talks. No one has to show.. or those who show have every right to boo him off the stage.

One exception would be if he was preaching this stuff in order to insight violence or a riot. That's a different story.

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Thylo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, but I heard that he threatened to sue the schools that wouldn't let him speak. the schools have every right to keep him from speaking there, it's their property and they can keep nutcases away if they want to.
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RenaBhaLL
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he has a right to his opinion, and it shouldn't effect his livelihood by getting fired. He should certainly keep his job, although I don't necessarily agree with most of what he said, or the insensitive way he went about shouting his generalizations which could be, and probably have been taken very personally by those who lost family members in the attack. However, honoring the "Combat Teams" that attacked though was not only outrageous, but rediculously ignorant, since they killed thousands of innocents (including the unsuspecting people on the planes) in their own little attempt to bring justice to the world. Nice job f**ktards

anyhoo, keep the job, but accept that a lot of people are going to hate you for your opinion--that's how it usually works, no matter what side of an issue you're on, if you shout loud enough.
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Quinn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that he should be fired for the reasons they seem to be useing. he has a right to say what he wants in situations like these. it's also everyone's choice to listen. The only reason he might deserve fireing is if he's letting his opinions affect the information he's teaching his students. I'm not saying he can't have his opinion in the classroom, he just needs to make sure it isn't the only opinion in his classroom.
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Thane
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should be fired, but not for what he said. Firing him for saying stuff like the "little Eichmanns" comment only makes him a "martyr" for folks like the ACLU and such. Take that before a court like the 9th Circuit Court (which has a rather socialist/liberal track record), and Churchill will end up being presented not as a villain, but as a victim.
No, fire him for academic dishonesty. Fire him because he lied about his ancestry in order to influence his credentials and academic record. Ward Churchill claimed to be part of an American Indian tribe, and used that claim to lend credence to his "studies." He's no Indian, though - his "membership" was based upon and "proven" by a gag card that one tribe handed out to non-tribal people as a joke, some 20 (? - not sure of the exact timeframe) years ago.
Fire him not because his words were shameful to the college, but because he lied to his peers and to his employers, in order to influence his credibility.
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Thane
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quinn wrote:
I don't believe that he should be fired for the reasons they seem to be useing. he has a right to say what he wants in situations like these. it's also everyone's choice to listen. The only reason he might deserve fireing is if he's letting his opinions affect the information he's teaching his students. I'm not saying he can't have his opinion in the classroom, he just needs to make sure it isn't the only opinion in his classroom.


Yes, he was letting his opinions rule the discussion. He's also not the only, nor the worst, professor in that respect; he's a rather nasty symptom, but he ain't the disease in and of himself.

I'd advise folks to look up Students for Academic Freedom and the Academic Bill of Rights for further discussion of the problem of activist professors preaching their activism in the classroom, rather than teaching the course material.
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