Planetfurry BBS Forum Index Planetfurry BBS
Forums for Planetfurry Site Members and more
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   DonateDonate   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

UNIX or bust?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Planetfurry BBS Forum Index -> CG Furry Art
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ryan Fox
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: UNIX or bust? Reply with quote


Things in the information technolgy word are looking pretty shaky for our
friend Bill.
As it is Microsoft hasn't come up with a "working" 64-bit solution for us
folks who need who RAW power that 64-bit processors offer. At the
moment our friends at MS find themselves in a little bit of a bind, Sun
Microsystems is nipping viciously at their heals and IBM has deserted
them. And rumors have it that the new OS from M$ will be released
somewhere in 2011 O.o


Okay hold onto that thought for a second.. I need to cool down before I
blow a gasket.
Now what are we artists going to do who partially relies on M$ to provide
us with a means to run our creation software when they can't even keep
up with the hardware trend? Oh well.. Guess we just need to adjust and
adapt, and evolve to use hardware and software that forces us to start at
the bottom yet again =/

Anyhow.. I need to get used to UNIX, and now Maya. Hmm can't wait for
Discreet to port 3DSMAX to Linux ^^


OH well.. here are some snapshots of my UNIX rig.
Back to top
Mapper
Registered User


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 892
Location: East coast somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MS has the money so I'm thinking the projections may be exagerated. But I can see this might be an attempt to topple the giant as well.
Nice Rig !! Very Happy

_________________

Av by GreyCat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Ryan Fox
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
Gates will do what he has done now for years.

He doesn't have the smarts in his stable to write it so he just buys out the company that has.




Some companies won't sell. That's what he's forgetting Wink
So when they do happen to come up with a new Windoze OS, others would've
already taken the gap before them. I've tested XP64 builds. And I’m not
impressed at all, in fact I found that Linux was significantly faster on the
64-bit AMDs.. And what's hapening to the Itanium2?
Back to top
Lurch
Registered User


Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 77
Location: Bothell, WA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd like to know is what are the major advantages of 64 bit processing, when there is *nothing* supporting it yet? Additional memory addressing is a plus I guess, but for any type of home user? Confused How is rendering 3D on a 64 bit rig going to help when the processors availible now really just 32 bit x86 chips with 64 bit extensions? Even the opteron is just that. Keep in mind that these concerns are for the next few years only, I know 64 is the future. When people were changing from 16 bit 80286 to the 32 bit 80386 this same discussion happened many times. What about the Itanium 2?

Lots of ?'s I know, but ...

_________________
=-LurcH-=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
starslayer
Registered User


Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can download a beta version of windows XP 64 bit edition on their developers page. but it is a microsoft beta so beware.
_________________
Those who walk in darkness fear no shadows.

furry code: FDDcmpsw3dw A- C? D-- H-- M? P- R+++ T++ W- Z- Sm- RLU a- cln++ d-- e- f-- h* i+ j+ p* sm-
Avatar image used with permission by Jakkal check her stuff out here http://www.drakkolupen.com/main.asp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
admford
Registered User


Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 316
Location: Illinois (was Italy)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well with the move to 64bits, Microsoft has serious competition not only from Linux, but from Mac OS X 10.4 too. Apple recoded a major portion of it to support it's G5 proccessors and now applications will be able to directly use the full power of the processor in 64 bit mode. Here's a great description on the technology and benefits of going 64 bit, at least in Apple's view.

http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html

_________________
Big... Shinee.. Red.. Button!!!
Press button get cookie! Press button get cookie!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Tygon
Site Owner
Site Owner


Joined: 03 Apr 2001
Posts: 2497
Location: Isernhagen, Lowersaxony, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
Those he can't buy out he just sues out of business with some trumped up thing and then takes it anyway.. Evil or Very Mad


He doesn't even have to do that. Microsoft still has enough market share and financial firepower to stomp every opposition but the largest deep enough into the ground until they have no other choice but sell to them or they will lose EVERYTHING. Mr. Gates has his eyes on Nintendo for quite a while but they won't sell. As a result we got the xbox. If it wasn't for the fact that Nintendo is a traditional Japanese company (which will set hell and heaven into motion before they sell to someone non-Japanese) he would have gotten it already.

_________________
Tygon Panthera - name and species
www.planetfurry.com/~tygon/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shoobie
Registered User


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Fairfax County Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I apologise in advance for the tails I'm about to step on and the fur-fits I'm about to stir up...)

1. Microsoft isn't the only company in the world who's strategy is to either aquire technology to boost its solution or create its own. Microsoft is just the one with the most money. They're also the most visible, and the most widely integrated into the one area that truly counts: business.

2. Changing an intensive suite of applications on such a scale is a logistical nightmare. (I'd like to see any other non-open-source software company pull of such an attempt without drawing at least a mild sweat.)

3. Microsoft was working full bore on a 64bit environment...but the masses complained only about security. So Microsoft has now turned full-round to focus on their many security problems...but the masses now complain about 64bit. Microsoft probably wishes the masses would make up their minds. So would I. Too bad some people can't get off the bandwagon once they're on it.

4. There would be far, far fewer security complaints about Microsoft, if people would just RTFM.

5. Since Bill's retirement, if he's touched a single line of code (or even a development keyboard for that matter) in the past 5 years, I'll give up writing! (As it stands, I'm pretty safe.)

6. Despite ol' Bill being retired, no longer making money directly from Microsoft, acting only as a figurehead and spokesman, and engaging himself only so far as the socialite exploits his calendar demands, it’s surprising how many people still think he’s doing all the work. (Then again, most people don’t even know he’s retired.) Although a team of developers has overlooked security and functionality holes in the product while being over-watched by people who receive no directives from Bill Gates at all, not to mention a self-important licensing group who followed the commands of their lawyers and not Bill or the Board, and although Microsoft’s goals are set by a panel board of many people with only side comments from Bill, it’s clearly all Bill’s doing.

I mean, no one does any work at Microsoft. It’s only Bill. While he’s demonstrating products, saying sales pitches for conventions, and gathering dust, he’s also writing all the code, developing all the products, integrating with the customers, writing the licenses, cutting the disks, developing the market strategies, directly overseeing all of the global offices himself...

It’s clearly only Bill who needs to be blamed for problems, right? I mean, he’s so involved in the inner workings of Microsoft today, right?

Don’t make me grunt...

7. Until Linux can directly, effectively, and easily compete with and replace the corporate business applications provided by Microsoft, I ain’t switchin’ nothing. Linux can happily get stripped down to be the dumbfire file dump server, or at most run a Notes environment for legacy government installations who are still crying upon their dirt-old unix boxes they can’t upgrade.

8. Why should I wait for something to be ported or built as an afterthought, when I could have it now on my PC?

9. The professional development market (graphics, games, movies, etc) run on custom software and hardware environments. They have the real money. They don’t have the need to deploy extremely powerful compiling machines to every user, when they all use a centralized processing dump the size of a Buick.

10. Mom and Dad, the secretary, the guy delivering packages and the mail, and all the other folks like them who don’t understand computers and don’t even do their own updates, aren’t going to see the value in an open-source application, how it works, and especially how to install it. These aren’t selling points for the correct target audience! If you want the masses to convert, you have to appeal to them in terms they understand with a product they can understand.

11. In the hands of an idiot or someone who doesn’t read the documentation or know what they’re doing, a Linux box is about as secure as a llama in a Washington-DC Zoo lion pit.

12. Start explaining all the processes involve in setting up and managing a Linux box, and most non-Linux users would think you’d started speaking Klingon.

13. IE has security holes. We all know. I SAID WE ALL KNOW!!! Everyone can stop pointing that out now!

14. A person who can do nothing but repeatedly say “Microsoft Sucks” is the first thing that comes to most people’s minds when they think about a Linux user. Sadly, it’s not an undeserved reputation, either.

*pant pant* grrrrrr

Had to get that all off my chest. Sorry. Feel free to post your dissagreements...

Nice setup, btw. I would have gone for a switch-box for the keyboard and mouse instead of having two, but that's just me.

Okay, it’s time for me to go curl up in the bed for the night to dream about vixens and panther-kitties...
*lonely, tired techie furry author goes to bed*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Ryan Fox
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Yeah that was pretty lengthy.. to say the least. And yes I agree with you that
the public, or a percentage of the public lacks the knowledge to use a PC, let alone a UNIX box.
As an ex MCSE I agree that Windows is good for entertainment and office
use. BUT if you want reliability, scalability and real raw performance..
steer away from Microsoft completely. Use Linux, Solaris or Unix (Iris)
Especially when you plan to head into 3D animation. Especially Maya and
Discreet Flame/Inferno

Personally MS is not all that bad if you primarily use it for gaming, or the
odd photo, or graphics job, other than that, it's like playing Russian
roulette. Trust me I've seen how a Maya render-farm running on windoze
XP caused countless people to resort to violence, even the destruction of
hardware.

Back to top
admford
Registered User


Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 316
Location: Illinois (was Italy)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoobie wrote:
3. Microsoft was working full bore on a 64bit environment...but the masses complained only about security. So Microsoft has now turned full-round to focus on their many security problems...but the masses now complain about 64bit. Microsoft probably wishes the masses would make up their minds. So would I. Too bad some people can't get off the bandwagon once they're on it.

Actually, it's not the case of MS either going 64 bit or repairing security problems. Security problems will always exist, at least until Microsoft leaves the legacy Windows platform and dose a completely new version. Secondly considering that the speed of x86 processors has literally halted (Intel cancelling the P4 running at 4GHz), multiple processors are hard to program, be it two physical processors or dual core. 64Bit usage is the easiest way to get more power out of processors that support this, and MS is keeping a keen eye on this possibly later for Longhorn.

Shoobie wrote:
4. There would be far, far fewer security complaints about Microsoft, if people would just RTFM.

There's no "manual" covering Windows security for average users. Heck, what kind of pubblicity would it be for Microsoft and PC makers if they included a piece of paper saying "Buy and install these programs (antivirus, firewall, ad/spy ware remover) before even thinking of connecting the computer to the internet". When I used my PC, I had Norton System Works Professional and Firewall installed on my PC just to be 100% sure that it'll be safe, and even then with all the settings up on maximum, it got trashed. The safety problems are not only due to the incompitence of some people, but due to teh complexity and lack of optimization that Microsoft did with every update.

Shoobie wrote:
7. Until Linux can directly, effectively, and easily compete with and replace the corporate business applications provided by Microsoft, I ain’t switchin’ nothing. Linux can happily get stripped down to be the dumbfire file dump server, or at most run a Notes environment for legacy government installations who are still crying upon their dirt-old unix boxes they can’t upgrade.

Linux is an interesting OS, but for it to gain any larger acceptance with home users and industry, they need to find a common platform that includes not only the same kernel, but the same type of software installer packages, and possibly a common GUI that though may differ from make to make, but uses much of the same libraries that would allow increased compatibility and also ease of use. Until it gets those things right, it's good to be used in the server enviroment.

Shoobie wrote:
8. Why should I wait for something to be ported or built as an afterthought, when I could have it now on my PC?

Me being the typical Mac user, I find this quite amusing. Remember, Word was first ported from System 1 (MacOS) to DOS/Windows. I've tried the latest encarnation of Office XP, and all I can say is this. It's crap. Though i'm an avid user of Office 2004 for Mac OS X. It's not a direct port, but more of a parallel release. The GUI is quite different from Office XP and it's a little more pleasing to the eyes. Though many ports aren't done as an afterthought, if they would then you'd see tons of crap software on other platforms. Ports of PC software to other platforms often tend to be just as good or better than the original, due to errors being found and corrected, GUI changed or optimized. Speed wise, problems start if there is any processor family specific code included, but mainly it's just that.

Shoobie wrote:
9. The professional development market (graphics, games, movies, etc) run on custom software and hardware environments. They have the real money. They don’t have the need to deploy extremely powerful compiling machines to every user, when they all use a centralized processing dump the size of a Buick.

Hmmm... Pixar uses Macs and Maya, while using it's own rendering package. Game developers make models in Maya and 3D Studio MX normally. In movies, Apple's software (Final Cut Pro, Motion, Shake) are the most used on the market, and run on Macs only. Many of these program use distributed computing to complete some graphics heavy runs. Heck Pixar has a couple store rooms full of Itanium II's, Xeons, and XServe G5's chugging away at it's frames with Maya on them all. Custom software and hardware isn't financially smart, SGI may have killer machines, but they've fallen into relative obscurity by not offering user level machines early on (and they're not really doing it today too). Unless the hardware or software can be distributed largely, or can be made up by the money gained from the sale of the final product, there's no reasy why any company should resort to this type of solution.

Shoobie wrote:
10. Mom and Dad, the secretary, the guy delivering packages and the mail, and all the other folks like them who don’t understand computers and don’t even do their own updates, aren’t going to see the value in an open-source application, how it works, and especially how to install it. These aren’t selling points for the correct target audience! If you want the masses to convert, you have to appeal to them in terms they understand with a product they can understand.

The beauty of Mac OS X is that many Linux developers are looking into it. It's developer's tools come free with every Mac, or heck, you can download them directly from apple if you want. Open source applications on Mac OS are installed just like any other application. You either have an installer program, or you just drag the application to the applications folder. In Windows, Open Source programs are harder to find, because MS doesn't distribute freely any version of it's programming software and libraries. Thus many developers need to make some money to cover initial costs (thus this is why there's tons more shareware than freeware for Windows). Linux's main problem is the lack of a standard installation package for applications, until there's one accepted by all the "flavors" of Linux, it's not gonna become more popular outside the geek community.

Shoobie wrote:
11. In the hands of an idiot or someone who doesn’t read the documentation or know what they’re doing, a Linux box is about as secure as a llama in a Washington-DC Zoo lion pit.

The same goes for any computer and any OS.

The basic arguement in this topic was relating to the inherent coding of Unix based OSs and Windows. Windows more often than not has software and packages added to it's original code. Each new version literally contains the older version, but with some modifications. While Unix based OSs tend to optimize more than putting in who knows how many new features in each release.

Mac OS X is a classic example of this line of thought. Even though each OS release is labled 10.x, it should more correctly be labled 11, 12, 1x... Apple practically brings each version up to date with a newer kernel, much more optimized base structure of the OS, new graphics features (such as an almost 30% speed increase in frame rates for certain games going from 10.3.x to 10.4). With Windows, it's impossible to see an old computer run faster under a new OS, you ALWAYS have to upgrade. While with Mac OS X and Unix, almost any computer that's able to run older versions of the same software, will see a noticeable speed up with the upgrade.

Along with the constant reviews of the base code, developers find holes and managed to patch them, thus there's much higer inherent security with Unix based OSs. Secondly, you always need an administrator password to use any program that accesses the low level parts of the OS or even to install. Thus Malware is almost non existant on these platforms.

_________________
Big... Shinee.. Red.. Button!!!
Press button get cookie! Press button get cookie!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
titanhoss
Registered User


Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Lexington KY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starslayer1 wrote:
you can download a beta version of windows XP 64 bit edition on their developers page. but it is a microsoft beta so beware.


Last time I checked -all- versions of micro$oft are beta... (look at how often they need to 'patch bugs)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Ryan Fox
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanhoss wrote:
starslayer1 wrote:
you can download a beta version of windows XP 64 bit edition on their developers page. but it is a microsoft beta so beware.


Last time I checked -all- versions of micro$oft are beta... (look at how often they need to 'patch bugs)




-Just snickers- That's too true.. hehe.. I SO hate windows.. it's useless, it fails miserably under stress, period.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Planetfurry BBS Forum Index -> CG Furry Art All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group