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The Rules of English...
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Elfen_Furry
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: The Rules of English... Reply with quote

Yes, the abuser of native internet tongue would dare post this.

Why?

Think of it as an aid to the writers, besides the basics of spelling, grammar and structure will be discussed here, and thus, the remaining of the forum.

Also, HTML conversion of one's work can be discussed here (on another thread, of course), as well as wordprocessing idiosyncrocies.

Genre style can be discussed here and on other styles, all this to help anyone else out.

Thumbs up... but I must ask- DONT PUT YOUR STORIES HERE! Only a snippet, when help is required.

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Elfen_Furry
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Puntuation: Use Of Quotation Marks

Here is one thing I noticed that not even the English text books in the school agree with...
If/when a character speaks, depends on what was said and how it was said for use of puntunation marks. For example:

"Just shut up and leave me alone.", he said.
----->Which is the way I am used to writing such a sentence structure.
But...

"Just shut up and leave me alone," he said.
----->Is the more accepted term, but (from what I read in the English/Writing books) both are correct.


The ordeal becomes more apparent when more than one near-simultaneous action comes into play:

"Just shut up and leave me alone!", he said as throws his laptop at me.

but...

"Just shut up and leave me alone" he said as throws his laptop at me!

Seems to have lost its strength in the dialog but gives the action more UMPH!

So you have read it, now give input.
-Elfen

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hikaru
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're shouting or being very agressive in your statment, then the following would be more apropo:

"Just shut up and leave me alone!", he said as <i>he threw</i> his laptop at me.

Note that I changed your text slightly. You were mising past and present case in your stament.

"He said as he threw...." both are past tense.

"He says as he throws..." both are present tense.

He threw his laptop at me saying, "Just shut up and leave me alone!"

Mix of past and present, but the format of the sentance puts the saying in the same tense as the threw so it work. Razz

Muddled the water enough?

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Elfen_Furry
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*thumbs up*
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Scifer
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of tricks I use when I want to put volume or emphasis on speech. Here's an axample of a really aggressive way of putting the sentence ...

"Just shut up and leave me alone!!" he shouted, as he threw his laptop at me ...

Notice the bold font and the double exclamation points? Of course if you want to make it more violent and quick, you could get rid of the comma after shouted and replace the word threw with the word 'hurled' or something.

Rolling Eyes

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hikaru
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been of the opinion that using bold is a cheat. Double exclamation marks are, for me, a cheat too.... though I used to use ?! at one time. Jim broke me of that habbit, though.

If you want to show someone's angry, do it in posing.

That's my opinion on the subject, anyway. Smile

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Foxeris
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about punctuation with dialog, take the following two lines of text:

Quote:
"Put the knife down," he screamed.
"Put the knife down." He screamed.


The use of the period is important in this case, as in one version of the statement the character probably gets stabbed.
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mrblanche
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Punctuation Reply with quote

Here is the rule on this "he said" stuff. Or, at least here's the accepted practice.

"Just shut up and leave me alone!" he said.

This is the correct way to punctuate the sentence. I know it looks odd. Believe me, using double punctuation (the !", instance mentioned above) is never correct.

If it bothers you too much, you could write:

He said, "Just shut up and leave me alone!"

If you have any questions on grammar or punctuation, I'd be glad to help you out. It seems too many teachers these days have taken the attitude that just getting the message across is more important that getting it across correctly. They forget that standardized spelling, grammar, and punctuation were invented to make it possible for people who didn't know each other to convey their ideas clearly.

I believe it was H. Beam Piper in "Little Fuzzy," a great science fiction book for furry enthusiasts, who said that most of the problems in society were the fault of lazy English teachers who taught that close was good enough!

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Elfen_Furry
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Punctuation Reply with quote

mrblanche wrote:
Here is the rule on this "he said" stuff. Or, at least here's the accepted practice.

"Just shut up and leave me alone!" he said.

This is the correct way to punctuate the sentence. I know it looks odd. Believe me, using double punctuation (the !", instance mentioned above) is never correct.

If it bothers you too much, you could write:

He said, "Just shut up and leave me alone!"

If you have any questions on grammar or punctuation, I'd be glad to help you out...


That is what this thread is about Mr. Green

As for me, I tend to mix dialog and action together. Why? Because the characters are in contant motion in action while they are speaking to one another, even when they are standing still and looking at each other.

It sort of makes new twists to the rules.

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Tygon
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
Here is another hard one for authors.

You know what you are doing, writing and thinking. What you just wrote makes perfect sense to you.

Now wipe the story, characters, plot, all of it from your mind and try to read it like you have never seen or heard of it before.

Like I said 'hard'.

Suddenly you're totally confused as to what is going on. Your mind has been filling in the details that you never wrote down. The reader will not have that advantage.


That's what editors are for.

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Vee Are Are Schee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
Here is another hard one for authors.

You know what you are doing, writing and thinking. What you just wrote makes perfect sense to you.

Now wipe the story, characters, plot, all of it from your mind and try to read it like you have never seen or heard of it before.

Like I said 'hard'.

Suddenly you're totally confused as to what is going on. Your mind has been filling in the details that you never wrote down. The reader will not have that advantage.


Indeed! After writing something for a period of time--say, a few dozen pages--I won't look at it for a week or two. Later, I'll come back and read it as if it were brand new, and find all sorts of things I need to add in. I also think that this is one of the reasons that my stories rarely leave production.
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mrblanche
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
Now wipe the story, characters, plot, all of it from your mind and try to read it like you have never seen or heard of it before.


I would add one word to that sentence. Insert the word "aloud" after "it" and before "like."

Remember that a comma means a short pause, and a period means a full stop.

One of the biggest problems I've seen in writing by almost everyone is a tendency to build "run on" sentences. Reading your work aloud can help you get a better feel for the flow of the language. It's a lost art, but one that will pay you handsomely in improved writing, not to mention satisfied readers.

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Osfer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, brevity and ease of reading need not be the deciding factors in how you phrase your sentences. Different styles of writing evoke different emotional responses from the readers. For instance, in fantasy stories, unnecessarily florid and arcane prose may be utterly useless in conveying your story but offer a reader a far greater engagement with a world very different from their own.
Children's stories tend to have short sentences but also to be very repetitive, repeating certain phrases at regular intervals. This is not because childen for some reason need reminders that adults do no, but rather because repetition grants the story a measure of rhythm, which the child can enjoy recognising.
Then again, beautiful prose can be simply aesthetically pleasing. Compare the very economical
Quote:
"Time passed slowly while he came closer to the inevitable."

to Oscar Wilde's
Quote:
Time seemed to him to be crawling with feet of lead while he by monstrous winds was being swept toward the jagged edge of some black cleft of precipice."


Wilde's prose makes my knees weak.

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Osfer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my point as well -- to indicate that aside from mud, there is also excess prose that enhances the story Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done improperly it's a crime to the senses!
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