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Nameless
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 Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: Chapter 49 |
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Been practicing your Pink Floyd? 
Pretty interesting chapter. As far as the background talk between Sheila and the Angel goes, I found it pretty good. Very similar to my own opinion. Which can probably be summed up with something like this "It does not really matter which way you take, as long as you are going in the right direction.".
It's good to see Sheila become an active player once more. 
p.s.
Hmmm, interesting how much more freedom of action is given to the regular players (humans, furs, ...) compared to the "power-players" (Angels especially).
On the other paw, they have a much harder time of messing things up on a celestial scale.
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hikaru
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Chapter 49 |
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| Nameless wrote: | | Been practicing your Pink Floyd? |
Only one passage was Pink Floyd
| Nameless wrote: | Hmmm, interesting how much more freedom of action is given to the regular players (humans, furs, ...) compared to the "power-players" (Angels especially).
On the other paw, they have a much harder time of messing things up on a celestial scale. |
There are rules and then there's the "free will" issue. The celestials never had a "soul" but instead are spirits. They never had free will. Each one was created to do a specific job or type of job, however they do have a limited form of free will allowing them to step outside their bounds. For the most part, they're roll is set.
Lucifer runs hell. His goal is to take over heaven and assume his "rightful" place as the right hand of god. Lucifer doesn't do this because he has ambition, he's doing it because it's what he was designed to do. He was created to assume that roll. His roll specirically allows him to break the rules of the game because that's part of his roll. On the other hands, the angels of Heaven can't. They have to follow the rules.
All part of the game.
Cheers
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Aramis Dagaz
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Now this was an interesting chapter. I loved the theological argument in the conversation between Sheila and the Angel. It was general enough to encompass just about all of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, but specific enough to get the bottom line across. The Angel even presented a Hindu idea by implying that there are several ways to get to Heaven when he said that some people are called to the clergy and that Shelia didn't need to get herself to a nunnery to be saved. And the part about (the absence of) the love spell and keeping the discovery in a relationship was also of great interest.
Is this a chapter of an epic or a philosophical self-help book? 
Very well said Hikaru. I commend your writing in this chapter. I look forward to the next one.
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webkilla
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:08 am Post subject: |
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I wont bother talking about all the stuff that the others have already covered, they said it well enough: Great chapter!
but, ehm... Karmic rebirth? Ouch...
Not that I've ever heard of the concept before, but I did get it in the end...
One thing though: I didn't quite get the bit about Arden having a soul or a spirit? (or both, that'd be fun...)
Good story, can't wait till Arden gets his powers back - He'll probably do a lil magic make-over on himself by then 
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Nameless
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| webkilla wrote: | | One thing though: I didn't quite get the bit about Arden having a soul or a spirit? (or both, that'd be fun...) |
Actually, that is a good question.
I don't have the chapter in front of me right now, but I think the Angel said that Arden did not have a soul any more. I wonder how exactly this does affect him.
I mean, is it still him, is it still the same person? Is not the soul what defines a person (and not the body as we have seen in this story)?
Would he still have true free will if he does not have a soul any more? Or would he be just like the Angel, someone with a certain role to play?
Questions, questions... 
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hikaru
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Nameless wrote: | | webkilla wrote: | | One thing though: I didn't quite get the bit about Arden having a soul or a spirit? (or both, that'd be fun...) |
Actually, that is a good question.
I don't have the chapter in front of me right now, but I think the Angel said that Arden did not have a soul any more. I wonder how exactly this does affect him. |
No. Re-read it.
The angel said that if/when he comes back, he will have a spirit and not a soul. Arden still has a soul otherwise he'd be unable to enter Eden.
I guess the technicality that y'all are getting stuck on is this: Souls are natural, a spirit is artificially created. Sorcerers and the like can "summon up" spirits, but they're different from souls. They've been created by something other than God directly. Lakash created all of the spirits that compose the Dragon Eternal/Guardian Dragon. Nanuk too can create spirits, but hasn't had the need.
Kind of a sneak preview into a twist to come MUCH later in the story.
| Nameless wrote: | I mean, is it still him, is it still the same person? Is not the soul what defines a person (and not the body as we have seen in this story)?
Would he still have true free will if he does not have a soul any more? Or would he be just like the Angel, someone with a certain role to play?
Questions, questions... |
That's a good question. When Arden makes a comeback, just how will the change affect him? ^_-
Cheers
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Nameless
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "The first one was," he replied with a smirk. "It was a prototype. The Maker hadn't gotten around to tossing skin and hair pigmentation into the mix. Subsequent versions did have that. It cut the sunburn factor down immensely." |
The version that was finally released wasn't version 3.1 by any chance?
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Henry_Hound
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One thing though: I didn't quite get the bit about Arden having a soul or a spirit? (or both, that'd be fun...) |
The way it came across to me is that he has a sould and a spirit now, it's just that his sould is not in his body it's somewhere else. But I could be wrong.
The glory and torment of complete confusion.  
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hikaru
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Hound wrote: | | Quote: | | One thing though: I didn't quite get the bit about Arden having a soul or a spirit? (or both, that'd be fun...) |
The way it came across to me is that he has a sould and a spirit now, it's just that his sould is not in his body it's somewhere else. But I could be wrong. |
He sighed and shook his head. "I'm sorry, Sheila, but that's not quite how it'll work. Yes, he'll be mortal, but he won't have a soul. He'll have a spirit. Once that mortal body dies, the spirit will return to the realm from whence it came. It won't pass on to Heaven or Hell like a normal soul will."
It doesn't say he doesn't have a soul at the moment, just that he'll come back with a spirit and not a soul.
Cheers
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Pat The Fox
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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But then.. if he has a spirit doesn't that mean his free will has been lost? That would make him a piece in the game like the angels and lucifer with rules wouldn't it?
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hikaru
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Pat The Fox wrote: | | But then.. if he has a spirit doesn't that mean his free will has been lost? That would make him a piece in the game like the angels and lucifer with rules wouldn't it? |
Heh... That's the twist.
Or is it?
BUWHAHhaahaahahahahahahahaha
You'll just have to wait and find out.
:agrue:
:smilecolros:
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webkilla
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hikaru
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| webkilla wrote: | | Hikaru, I think you need to go ease up on weed, ok? |
Weed? Weed? We don't need no stinkin' weed!
What I need to do is wrap the story up and end it like I originally planned. I don't know how I'm going to keep what's left of my sanity if I do another Act!
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Henry_Hound
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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You enjoy keeping us confused, don't you Hikaru?
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hikaru
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Hound wrote: | | You enjoy keeping us confused, don't you Hikaru? |
Where's the fun in reading a story if you know what's going to happen?
That's why I hate movies and books that end with cliches. I've tried my best to avoid the worst of the worst cliches, but occasionally a few manage to rear their ugly head.
Anyway... The day you can predict what's going to happen in Act IV, I'll know it's time to hang up my hat on the IC project and move on to writing romance novels. *laughs*
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