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back to the bottomless well that is physics...
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admford
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: back to the bottomless well that is physics... Reply with quote

Well, i'm after my first month of college physics (first 3 exams in November).

I just wanted to inform some of the readers of this forum that a friend of mine (Fernando Loup) and two of his collegues have come across a way of "creating" a warp/hyperspace engine. His work is based on Miguel Alcubierre's work on warp drive physics, but the results seem alot more promising (i.e. some experiments during our generation). I'm adding a PDF of his work, and personally i'd like an explanation of it since i don't understand a damn thing about the math used Smile


One other thing, I was thinking that some ideas of quantum mechanics say that a sub-atomic particle will change states, instead of changing to one particular state, it simultaniously is at every possible state until an "event" makes it assume one state. I was thinking since one particle cannot do this in the physical world, It would be probable that this particle would "create" a branching of time. With these infinite separations of time, it would mean a possibility of parallel worlds in which differences can be infinitesimal to cosimic in size (i.e. "Sliders" TV series). Thinking about this infinite array of possible worlds made me think, that having infinite possibilites can be created. Thus deffinately in more than one of these "worlds" it may just be possible that, well, Sabrina might just exist...

One last thing, here's the million dollar question in physics, biochemistry, and esotheric ideas: If the human imagination is unlimited, thus most probably infinite, and a timeline with infinite diramifications, is it possible that imagination is linked to this physics theory????
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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do you think this physics theory came from?

Sorry; don't mean to be flip with that comment - that's just the way I see it. It doesn't matter whether the "real world" (whatever that might mean - it's an undefined variable in this context) is infinite, bounded, curved, flat, self-intersecting, et cetera ad nauseum - in order to define a theory which encompasses the concept of infinity, the imagination (mind, logic, central point of a solipsist universe, e. c. a. n.) must encompass the concept of infinity.

You want to know a fairly easy way to determine if a particular mind can encompass infinity? See if they can understand number theory. There may be a few exceptions I've never encountered, but so far, it's a one-to-one congruence.

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Elfen_Furry
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see his work...

Although, Without imagination, there can not be understanding, and without understanding, there can be no science- esp. physics.

Theres an arguement that math and physics are of the same thing (Both mathematians and physisists would disagree on it...), but doing the basic theorical work in the early 80's, I would like to see how it progressed in my absence; for I see a connection between the two.

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RodTerl
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:06 am    Post subject: Similar Reply with quote

Theres something I find interesting, about maths and physics being claimed, often to extreme, to be completely different.

Um, theyre both used to describe events in the Universe, that these days especially, no normal person is ever going to even see, never mind interact with?

At the very base, maths, physics, Everything, Has to be one and the same, because they are all part of the Universe as we exist within. An interesting couple of things with this are,

Its possible to write the symbology of mathematics, as a sequence of matrices, a given matrix either representing a number, a variable, or even a mathematical operator. This means that using a dedicated piece of matrix manipulating hardware in a computer, would allow you to process mathematical structure, no matter how complex, or currently undiscovered, in a standard method.

An interesting effect of this, is that currently, mathematics utelises infinite spaces and numbers. Why has noone had a go, at quantising maths itself, seeing as the preliminary idea, that of Diophantine solutions, seems to be a prerequisite of most solutions?

In physics, why is so much work done with a limited number of real dimentions, when in maths, multiplying a matrix, for rotation, is simple, but translating a matrix, requires summation, but adding an extra dimention to the matrix allows translations to be represented by multiplications rather than summation, integrating previously incompatible structures.

I still worry though, about the physisists who use the term dimentions loosely, and possibly wrongly, between the physical, and mathematical equivalents. An extra term in a mathematical matrix doestn neccessarily need to have any physical, or virtual correspondace in the equivalent physical matrix. Its there because it simplyfies the structures overall.

I would like to see the warp structure, and maths, that your freind has come up wth, in that I wonder what variations he uses in the maths required to design it, and if the subtle modifications I discovered would make his math structures that much simpler. Cool

I can show how Einstiens eqations, as they are, can be used to describe a varying speed of light, for an example Cool

I hope this is intriguing to you, instead of too annoying 8(

Quantised Maths, and Variable c Physics, sitting in a low number of Complex Dimentions.

A simple idea, but with great consequences if they turn out useable? Cool

RodTerl

I a Very sorry about the misspellings.. I distrust certain spell checkers, because I cant tell if theire giving me the correct words 8(

By the way, due to the heating effect on the air due to its passage, Concorde actually flies at less than Mach 1, Relative to the immediate locality Cool

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Tygon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Similar Reply with quote

RodTerl wrote:
By the way, due to the heating effect on the air due to its passage, Concorde actually flies at less than Mach 1, Relative to the immediate locality Cool


Yeah, and relative to the sun it might actually be flying backwards on the head.

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RodTerl
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject: My Apologies Reply with quote

I am very sorry if what I have said has caused you offence, I apologise for my post 8(

RodTerl

Reality is a consensus of opinion.

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Mapper
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concord at cruise altitude does burn less fuel than a tank but to achieve this it must expend great quantities of energy to reach altitude so it burn lots more gas than a tank. Wink You have to expend alot of kienetic to unleash the potential. Don't mind me I usually don't know what the heck im talking about Wink
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Tygon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, it's just that I've tried to explain the concept of relativistic speed so often to poeple who should be able to understand it, it ticks me of to hear about it. Plus, I'm in a shitty mood and overreacted.
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Mapper
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy a moody tiger Shocked RUN!! Wink cheer up tygon Very Happy
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Tygon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a tigon.
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Mapper
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand beaten and corrected Wink
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RodTerl
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:53 am    Post subject: Moop 8( Reply with quote

Im very sorry if Ive offended you, but this is something Ive been watching for many years, becuase the problem doesnt go away, no matter how hard people try.

The simple reasoning is,

What if Einstien got All the Right Equations, BUT, used the wrong explanation?

Please. Go back to the origional Michaelson Morely experiment, and do these three things.

First, Relativity, assume that the length of the arm in the direction of travel, alters as a function of velocity. Derive Special relativity.

Second, Doppler, assume the velocity of light depends on a function of energy, and so derive a recursive equation describing the variation of speed of light with velocity.

Three, show by simple algebraic manipulation, that these two equations are in fact identical.

I promise Im not trying to prove that Im right in anything, its just that Im hoping to show that its possibloe to change the viewpoint of the equations, and so their overall effect.

As for Concorde, Um, well, if the air in front didnt travel faster, then the shockwave would stay permanently affixed to the nose, since by photography, its been proved to seperate totally, the air molecules must be capable of transmitting the shock ahead of the nose into the air ahead, and since any disturbance cannot travel faster than the speed of sound, the speed of sound at the nose of the aircraft, must be higher than the velocity of the aircraft. Therefore, Concorde travels slower than the speed of sound.

For exactly the same reason all material objects travel slower than the speed of light. 8}. The faster they go, the more spacetime they drag with them, therefore the ehavier they appear to be. Due to the alteration locally in speed of light, light rays bend, and so the object appears shorter, and, because of the variation in speed of light, a given frequency of radiation has a longer wavelength, which remains constant, dependant on other factors, giving the appearence of time slowing down if its assumed the frequency is the factor thats altering.

Reality is a fish, it just Appears to be so. For ease of calculation that is. 8}

I apologise. 8(.. Im just trying to offer a reasonable way out of the hole physics has been stuck in the last centuary 8(

RodTerl

The simplest warp drive is a paperclip.

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Hutch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked ::BlinkBlink:: Shocked

That raises more questions than it answers.

Sad My head hurts.... Sad

Hutch

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Tygon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all this warp stuff is far too complicated to actually work and I freely admit that that's mostly because I can't stand Star Trek.

I personally think, and this opinion has no scientific base of any kind, that a spacefolder ala Event Horizon is more likely to work than a warp drive. After all, space folding is a concept that's proven to work. It's the reason you're standing on the ground and won't float around freely (and the reason for almost anything else BTW)

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Hutch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a valid point.

I don't really see how a warp drive can work, it seems to defy physics.

Can someone clear it up.

I'm starting to feel really stupid. Sad

Hutch

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