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On Location
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anthony
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I learned a while ago is that some chapters needs to be a specific size, and that there's nothing you can do about it.
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Teric
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be inclined to agree that the 'chapter == 1 day' format is difficult to maintain. In my opinion, each chapter should focus around one or a few significant events or interactions, regardless of the time frame of those events.

I too would like to see this story continued, Mwalimu.

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Karou WindStalker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I do like the story .. I just recently located it, and have enjoyed reading what's available.

I'm hoping that there's opportunity to read more, but I do realize things come up.

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DHLawrence
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teric wrote:
I would be inclined to agree that the 'chapter == 1 day' format is difficult to maintain. In my opinion, each chapter should focus around one or a few significant events or interactions, regardless of the time frame of those events.

I too would like to see this story continued, Mwalimu.


I would agree with all of these. It's a nice idea, but sometimes you need to break things up so a chapter isn't so exhausting. And the poem was fantastic!
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mwalimu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I think I feel my muse recharging and I'm getting some better ideas about how to move ahead with the story.

On the chapter length question (which also came up recently over in the "Gone Wylde" thread), that's one writing rule that I would tell writers not to worry about sticking that close to. There are many writing rules that should be followed until a writer has enough experience to have a good feel for when it's okay to break the rules (and unfortunately many inexperienced writers go straight to breaking the rules just because "it's their style" and the result is usually crap). But the chapter length rule is one where I'd be comfortable telling even a less experienced writer not to worry about following it too closely and to do whatever works best in their case. I haven't decided yet how to handle it in the forthcoming chapters, but I'm not going to get too worried about it either.

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Karou WindStalker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I tend to agree there. ^_^

Seeing as I almost doubled the pages between Chapters 1 and 2 of EiiOS. ^_^

I mainly look for what feels like a natural break, even if, so far, it's been 'End of Day' as well. ^_^

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Karou WindStalker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Regan wrote:
A chapter should be as long as it needs to be to tell the story part.

To pad it so as to make it 10 pages long and you end up with crap.
To cut it down to not go over 10 pages long and you end up with crap.

Q F T

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ghostcat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karou WindStalker wrote:
Mike Regan wrote:
A chapter should be as long as it needs to be to tell the story part.

To pad it so as to make it 10 pages long and you end up with crap.
To cut it down to not go over 10 pages long and you end up with crap.

Q F T


As I have been one of those readers that do not comment, please do not cut/pad chapters to fit an 'ideal' page number. To me as a reader, it can be a pain to find out what/why happend if too much is cut, and padding makes for 'cotton candy' wrighting.

OK, I am a grump today, the 'ritus boys have been visiting. I will try to comment on future stories if I can. Rava's story was one I was waiting to see finished and then poof!

As for On Location, the story is interesting, well written with well done characters. I like the breakfast bar bits, seeing new or not well known cast members is great. A question from the odd parts of my brain (my wife says that an empty brain is a scary thing in my case, but she has issues) would see what happens if Jim Sheppard tries to get Zig to try some of the local favorites,
grits, boiled peanuts and Cheerwine come to mind.

As I said, my wife thinks I have a wierd mind, but after 40 years, she will put up with it.

later,

ghostcat
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D.F. Thompson
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me personally it should be where the author feel like it would be good place for a break. There are some authors one in particular who I won't name coughFELcough who like to leave his readers guessing at the end of each chapter. Personally he needs to change his name to Cliff Hanger.
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mwalimu
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To everyone who commented since I posted last Monday, thank you very much. I feel much more encouraged. And better yet, I've broken through one of the problems that I was stuck on for a long time, and that was the question of whether to use the peom as a foregoing plot element, as a couple of readers had suggested. Maybe I should learn to stick with the plot elements and threads I've already decided to use on my own, or at least be judicious in which reader suggestions I entertain seriously, but in a way I was already doing that. I wouldn't have entertained this one if I didn't think it had some potential to enhance the story, but for the longest time I couldn't figure out the right way to incorporate it while being true to the place it already had in the story and the characters involved. Well, I finally figured out how to make it work, and today in a binge of writing I wrote out draft versions of all the scenes in that thread of the story. The result is enough material for about half a chapter, which in actuality will end up being split across multiple chapters and interleaved with other events. For today, at least, I feel like I've regained my momentum.

To address one other issue, I'm going to stick with the "chapter a day" format for now. Perhaps one thing I could explain here is that a few of scenes I have planned don't have to happen on a particular day and time, so I have some room shuffle those around as needed to even out the chapter lengths. As such I'm generally not having to invent or conjure up material to pad out chapters.

As for the "morning chats", I'll continue to play it by ear. If I can find the right characters and the right reasons to make it work, I will, but I won't try to force it if there isn't a compelling reason to.

Incidentally, pages is a very ambiguous measure of chapter length, simply because of how much the word count per page can vary depending on the formatting. Writers have historically used the term to refer to a manuscript page, which usually comes out to about 250 words per page. Mass market paperbacks average about 375 words per page, a figure which can vary quite a bit one way or the other depending on how it is typeset by the publisher. As such, I don't consider page count to be all that meaningful. Word count is a much better measure of chapter length, in my opinion. And with that in mind, while I don't intentionally shoot for a particular chapter length, the length I typically end up with has averaged about 4000 words.

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DHLawrence
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear that you've broken through! Can't wait to see the results Smile
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Nicolai Borovskaya
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good chapter, though I wish it was longer. Oh, well, that's just more to look forward to. Not as long a wait this time, I hope.
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tobi3B
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man Clarence is really shy. the scene with the Gypsy and the laundry back made me laugh. And know Zig has the poem. Looking forward what happened next.
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Karou WindStalker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting turn of events here.

Wonder what Zig makes of the Poem ... and what she'll do with it. >.>

And wonder what would happen to Clarence if he found out Zig had it.

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Frazikar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or Lady Z will ask for some (more?) romantic poems for set use....
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