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Sara's Story
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Styx
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry dude but I just got around to reading it late...er early this morning then crashed straight away and just got up a short while ago. Hmmm interesting chapter it seems to me that it is almost certain that when they do leave on their journey that they will be attacked by bandits and thatís Sara will at least come close to being enslaved again which leads me to ask another annoying background question (sorry) slavery as it has already been stated is part of Sara's culture and is a matter of policy for the empire but that would also imply that there are guide lines for which a fur may be enslaved like in Sara's case she was enslaved because of her villageís inability to pay it's taxes, so my question is someone who is attacked and enslaved by bandits officially recognized as slaves or wouldn't there be laws protect against unlawful enslavement? Also once they reach Sara's former master will just to be cruel refuse to help in fact he such a incredible $#!^ he might even kill Sara's daughter if he still has her (I say this because I remember what he did to her just for asking what had happened to her when they took her daughter). All in all a really good chapter I enjoyed reading it and can't wait for the next.
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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styx wrote:
Hmmm interesting chapter it seems to me that it is almost certain that when they do leave on their journey that they will be attacked by bandits and that?s Sara will at least come close to being enslaved again which leads me to ask another annoying background question (sorry) slavery as it has already been stated is part of Sara's culture and is a matter of policy for the empire but that would also imply that there are guide lines for which a fur may be enslaved like in Sara's case she was enslaved because of her village?s inability to pay it's taxes, so my question is someone who is attacked and enslaved by bandits officially recognized as slaves or wouldn't there be laws protect against unlawful enslavement?

Theoretically you are protected against being unjustly enslaved. In practice it may be difficult to get anyone to listen to you once you have the collar around your neck. And if you manage that, proving that you were unjustly enslaved is another problem. So, unless you find a master who believes you (very unlikely, as most slaves would try to claim they were unjustly enslaved) or find someone who knows you and vouches for you, you will remain a slave.

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Hortmage
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styx wrote:
Hmmm interesting chapter it seems to me that it is almost certain that when they do leave on their journey that they will be attacked by bandits and thatís Sara will at least come close to being enslaved again which leads me to ask another annoying background question (sorry) slavery as it has already been stated is part of Sara's culture and is a matter of policy for the empire but that would also imply that there are guide lines for which a fur may be enslaved like in Sara's case she was enslaved because of her villageís inability to pay it's taxes, so my question is someone who is attacked and enslaved by bandits officially recognized as slaves or wouldn't there be laws protect against unlawful enslavement?



Styx,

Either lay off the caffeine, or learn to make friends with those little dot things on the bottom row of your keyboard (I think they're called punctuation)... Wink Smile

(Just a joke, man, just a joke!)

Although you bring up an excellent point. Joel Rosenberg, in his Fantasy series "The Guardians of the Flame", also deals with slavery (his characters are fighting to end it). There was a quote in one of the earlier stories (don't remember the EXACT wording), which stated something to the effect that slavers aren't exactly popular, since everyone is potential "merchandise" in their eyes.

If ANY fur can be clapped into irons and whisked away into slavery, how long can slavery exist? OK, Nameless talks about "unjustly enslaved" furs, and how they might convince someone (a "kind" master, which we really haven't seen any of) that they are really a freeman (freefur?). But really, unless a noblefur's kid is kidnapped and made a slave, then this is unlikely to occur. A noble has the funds to track down where his errant child was taken. Any peasant or middle class fur can basically kiss their kit goodbye.

As with the brigands who kidnapped Sara and the other slaves (and ate one....YUCH!) -- you notice they moved her around several times, to cover their tracks. OK, what stops these brigands from basically kidnapping anyone they come across, and selling them? If you are taken far from your village (which most people in the RL in the similar time period rarely did), you would probably have no idea where you are, or how to get back (geography not being taught much to illiterate peasants). And of course, you can forget about someone knowing you to vouch for your free status.

In my mind, ignoring all ethical points about slavery in general, I doubt rampant enslavement, as it appears to occur in this story, could last long before even the most conservative of furs fears for his own hide, and demands that slavery be abolished.

Abraham Lincoln once said:

Quote:
Although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it, by being a slave himself.


Slavery is an abstract...until the collar is placed upon YOUR neck! Lincoln also said:

Quote:
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever [I] hear anyone, arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

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Nameless
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised Shocked Embarassed Ok, when I first wrote "Sara's Story", that is the first six chapters, I did not intend it to continue or to use the world setting for more stories. I just wrote those things (like the bandits raiding for slaves) to move the story along. You make some excellent points, Hortmage.
The sad truth here is that I never thought about the story setting before I wrote those first few chapters, so there will be inconsistencies, and plainly things where one can easily (and rightly) say "The world does not work like that."

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Galadrion
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hortmage wrote:
If ANY fur can be clapped into irons and whisked away into slavery, how long can slavery exist?

Under exactly those circumstances, Hortmage, it's existed for almost as long as the human race, and in all branches. It's only been relatively recently that a large part of the world as started looking askance at slavery - and even now, that antipathy isn't universal. There are still places where slavery is part of the social fabric... and even where it's not, even here in the "home of the free and the brave", there are still cases of people practicing de facto slavery. For one of the higher-profile examples from recent events, do a quick Google search on "Sante Kimes". Elsewhere in the world... well, those stories about "white slavery" aren't all urban legends.

Hortmage wrote:
OK, Nameless talks about "unjustly enslaved" furs, and how they might convince someone (a "kind" master, which we really haven't seen any of) that they are really a freeman (freefur?).

I can think of one example of a "kind master" from in the story - Sara's penultimate master. And maybe a second one - Henry - though his case isn't as clear-cut: he did buy her intending to free her as his only act as her master.

Hortmage wrote:
As with the brigands who kidnapped Sara and the other slaves (and ate one....YUCH!) -- you notice they moved her around several times, to cover their tracks. OK, what stops these brigands from basically kidnapping anyone they come across, and selling them?

Absolutely nothing - except the possibility that the intended victims might be ready to defend themselves. This is precisely the manner in which most slavers have operated throughout history. For the most part, slaves were always from "somewhere else" - usually the only locals who were enslaved were either criminals (Jack and his cronies are good examples of how this works), or, far more rarely, people who sold their indentures for some reason. And the last type almost always enjoy a lot more protection under the law - look at the system under Babylonian law.

Hortmage wrote:
In my mind, ignoring all ethical points about slavery in general, I doubt rampant enslavement, as it appears to occur in this story, could last long before even the most conservative of furs fears for his own hide, and demands that slavery be abolished.

I have to disagree. Nearly six thousand years of recorded human history - and who knows how much before that - features established slavery... and only about the last two centuries shows a growing distaste for it. I like to think this shows we're growing up as a species... but we have to watch; there are those who would step backwards if they could.

Hortmage wrote:
Abraham Lincoln once said:

Quote:
Although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it, by being a slave himself.


Slavery is an abstract...until the collar is placed upon YOUR neck! Lincoln also said:

Quote:
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever [I] hear anyone, arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

A wise man, indeed. As I said, I prefer to regard this as a sign the human race is growing up. But it's a process... and one we're not done with yet.

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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 16 has been posted.

Please note the new layout of the adult part of my site and update your bookmarks to the main index page.

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Styx
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good chapter Nameless, so Sara just may have a bun in the oven already hmm maybe sje's got some rabbit in her bloodline Smile and the Vixen hmm maybe Lord Archwhiffle will follow in Henry's foot steps and mary himself a slave femme as I think I read that his wife had diedand he said he was becoming fond of the vixen. Again great read Nameless.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm...

I'm not entirely sure what to think - but I'm a bit confused. That first paragraph doesn't really match the rest of the chapter - is the following material Sara's stream of memory, or what? I think it's likely, but there's so little to go on...

If that is the case, I would consider expanding that first section. It wouldn't have to be much - a simple follow-on paragraph could do it. "Thinking back, I wondered where it started going wrong. It started so well... I closed my eyes, and let memory take me..." Something like that would clarify things somewhat, without giving anything away - not even what her current circumstances are.

As for the main part of the chapter, well done! Delightful work, as always. The characters remain true to their established identities (not always the easiest thing to manage!) and are as engaging as ever. This chapter has the feel of an "establishing" episode - hardly surprising, as this is (presumably) the beginning of a new arc. I'll be waiting to see where you decide to take this one.

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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galadrion wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what to think - but I'm a bit confused. That first paragraph doesn't really match the rest of the chapter - is the following material Sara's stream of memory, or what? I think it's likely, but there's so little to go on...

If that is the case, I would consider expanding that first section. It wouldn't have to be much - a simple follow-on paragraph could do it. "Thinking back, I wondered where it started going wrong. It started so well... I closed my eyes, and let memory take me..." Something like that would clarify things somewhat, without giving anything away - not even what her current circumstances are.

Well, I have thought about, I did want to write some more, but I have not really found a lot that would not give anything away...
It does happen quite a bit later. (I'll tell more when I think I can without giving away too much...)

Galadrion wrote:
This chapter has the feel of an "establishing" episode - hardly surprising, as this is (presumably) the beginning of a new arc. I'll be waiting to see where you decide to take this one.

How true. Laughing For the next part of this story...
And for another story...

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Last edited by Nameless on Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styx wrote:
Good chapter Nameless, so Sara just may have a bun in the oven already hmm maybe sje's got some rabbit in her bloodline Smile and the Vixen hmm maybe Lord Archwhiffle will follow in Henry's foot steps and mary himself a slave femme as I think I read that his wife had diedand he said he was becoming fond of the vixen. Again great read Nameless.

Laughing

As for the vixen marrying him... it is rather unlikely. It would be quite a scandal for a noble to marry out of species. Confused
(For some reason it's perfectly all right to yiff slaves out of species Confused )

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nameless wrote:
Styx wrote:
Good chapter Nameless, so Sara just may have a bun in the oven already hmm maybe sje's got some rabbit in her bloodline Smile and the Vixen hmm maybe Lord Archwhiffle will follow in Henry's foot steps and mary himself a slave femme as I think I read that his wife had diedand he said he was becoming fond of the vixen. Again great read Nameless.

Laughing

As for the vixen marrying him... it is rather unlikely. It would be quite a scandal for a noble to marry out of species. Confused
(For some reason it's perfectly all right to yiff slaves out of species Confused )

Heh just like in RL.
Yiff some one not of your race ore "Class" might be alrigh fore a welthy male.
But annythin other than thath?
Then it wuld be an uproar from his so calld "class".
(And thinks of a class mate who were i think iranian ore afanistan ore sonme sutch.
He thought it all right to hawe sex with swedish women, but marry them?
Heck no, they were whors in his opinion.)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were from me.
Shigh, and i forgot to say great chapther as always.
Both this story and the yiff less one. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 17 has been posted. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nameless wrote:
Chapter 17 has been posted. Twisted Evil


And an interesting chapter it is, too. Clearly setting the stage for any number of events to come. The next few chapters should prove "interesting".

Another good read.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone tell that I was having a lot of fun with the names? Laughing
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