Planetfurry BBS

[Solis]

I'm quite inclined to go along with Tygon's first post.

If you're doing something that's an Earth analogue, which, frankly, a lot of stories are, even if they're medieval or what-have-you, then it's really hard to put hybrids in certain, in fact most, periods. To go the opposite way from what was last post, we now look back at humanity's somewhat chequered past, recent or not.

I'm not a professional or anything, so some of this may be wrong. I apologise.

Medieval times: Impossible to have hybrids. Each race, or species, was/would be too concerned with its own survival to (a) explore much, or (b) even consider procreating with another race/species. They would have no idea what to make of them. No matter which way you look at it, there was a rather important reason why communities stuck together and didn't expand all that much (comparably) during those times. Survival. What was known was less deadly than the unknown, and dragons might come and eat you if you went too far off the map.

Eg: England was white, and nothing else. It had small subcultures, but they were white, too.

In a furry sense, this would roughly translate to the majority of England being foxes.

I'm grouping the Dark Ages, Middle Ages and Feudal ages together because I think the latter two might be the same thing and they were pretty much the same in terms of what I said above.

Renaissance: Now we have expansion, we have trade, we have exploration. Mixing was uncommon, still, as it was rare to travel to foreign lands due to hazardous conditions on sailing ships, disease, pestilence, and frankly the cultures were still far too different. It did happen, now and again, but not really all that common.

Basically... "sure we know they exist, but I've got a wife and kids back home, and frankly, their culture scares me."

The 16th to the 19th century (I have no idea what it's called): Basically the same as the renaissance, except a huge focus on settling and exploration. It was not unheard of for sailors to take native wives and have children, but it was pretty much confined to the explorers. Of course, they would more often than not abandon their "wives" and leave them with a bit of money, and go home to sunny old England (or wherever) to their white (or hispanic or arabic or whatever other place they're from) wife and kids.

The 20th century: This would be when they would common. Several groups exist against it, and against specific races, (or against every race _except_ a specific one) They're still not quite common, but they certainly get moreso as the years go on.

The 21st century and beyond: This has been covered already. I'm lazy. Ergo, I won't say any more.

You'd have to work really hard on a background for a hybrid character from the 1400s-1800s, and even the early 1900s. Before that, it deosn't really work at all. Subspecies, interbreeding, though (so-called 'mutts', 'mongrels,' etc.) would probably work then (There is very little difference, after all, between Scottish and Irish people. Physically, I mean)

Of course, comparing human cultures to different species is a bit ofa stretch. But, hey, it's fantasy.

And that's my tuppence for the pot.

[Concolor]

Solis, you make some excellent points. Quite a good essay, sir. And I will go along with you in most respects, but let me just say this.

In times of war the invading force would occasionally have its way with the females of the region they invaded. Sometimes the invaders were repulsed eventually, sometimes they weren't, at least for such a long period of time that the culture reached a norm. Think of England after the Norman invasion, or the Moorish influence still felt in Spain today. The Vikings tended to leave a string of illegitimate offspring in their wake as well.

So it would not be a terribly uncommon event to run into a hybrid, assuming that he or she was born in an active war zone. Of course, these poor furs would be at a terrible disadvantage, given that they carried the blood of the "hated enemy". The discrimination they faced would be fierce, I am sure. Their own mothers might even kill them at birth in some cases. It would depend on the culture. But as a general rule, I think you've hit the nail square on. I think it would tend to cast hybrids in the role of 'wanderer', if only to escape the derision heaped on them in their home villages.

In that chapter I wrote for Elementals, the citizens of Ur were all lions, those of Akkad all jackals. I'd made the same logical (don't you love that term in this context? ) progression that you did just now. It seemed the only reasonable scenario.

[Hortmage]

There are some other good stories on the web dealing with hybrids, or at the very least, the prejudices of mating outside of one's species.

To see how a couple of primitive societies deal with hybrids, check out the
"Ralya Series, by Atara.

... Rats... the other set of short stories, dealing with a fox and wolf in the space age, seems to have disappeared. They had to deal with a lunatic cult that made the Purists look like pussy cats...

I'm sure there are many other samples out there.

I'm glad Concolor spoke up about the "children of war" issue. Another source of hybrids would be from the slavery issue. During the US's despicable use of slaves up through the 1800s, it was not unknown for the white "masters" to avail themselves of their female slaves. Many mixed-race babies were born that way. I'd say that something very similar could be expected in a furry world, especially if one or more species (prey animals?) are treated as slaves, or at least as lower-class workers, without the right to say "no".

[Concolor]

[Nameless]

I have to disagree with you, Solis.

Given the amount of different species in the Sabbyverse stories, there won't be whole countries populated by a single species. There are just not enough countries. You may have villages that are populated by a single species, but not whole countries. And the ruling class could be a different species from the commoners.

But all that means there is communication between different species. And unless the different species don't find each other sexually attractive (like ferral animals) there will be intercourse between them. And unless they have invented a working form of birth control, there will be hybrids.

Just think of how often the ruling class (more or less) forces the commoners / slaves they rule to have sex with them.

And think any city. There you have a mixture of species no matter what. Cities are about trade, and trade means travel. Ergo bringing different species into contact.

And even if you have social preasure not to marry outside your species, ...
Somewhere I read that in the middle ages up to 40% of all children were born to unmarried parents.
Of course, child killing might be much more common than on our world, but... I don't want to go into that.

[Nameless]

[Solis]

[Nameless]

Let's talk humans and genetic analysis:
(I've read these things a few months ago, so I might not get them completely right.)

Some researchers have used a genetic mark that is only passed down in th female line to follow the european population back to seven original "tribes". Guess what, when you look at the map of where the descendants of these original tribes are, it's all mixed up. And that is just the map when you paint it with the most common tribe in each area, not counting that in most areas the most common tribe will still be a minority.

Another example:
In the Russia/Turkmenistan... area a significant portion of the male population have a distinctive genetic mutation (that is only passed in the male line) that originated in Mongolia at the time of Ghengis Khan. Probably one of his close ancestors.
Several percent of the total population, that is several millon people have it.


Let's talk late Middle Age / Rainessance warfare:
There was more or less constant warfare. Armies were often Mercenaries and even regular armies wanted to be entertained. Whichever are played host to them (willing or not) had to provide them with entertainment (read prostitutes) or they organized the entertainment themselves.
Birth control being what it was at that time....

[Solis]

I guess I should have done a bit more research, rather than just be the basics. But oh, well. I was a bit short on time. Now that I have a chance to go more in depth, I can see what you mean...

I apologise.

Interesting and unrelated fact: "Eve" was actually African in origin. They had a huge special on Discovery a while back about tracking her origins.

[Tygon]

[CrayzedWolf]

Ok sorry to be naive, but THis topic was about who liked hybrids and whatnot.

HOw did we start talking about planets and hybrid population and a bunch of other complicated stuff (Maybe its not complicated and I didnt read correctly) but U guys have lost me here.

Shed some light plz

[Fishburne]

its called the natural progression of topics.

at least, here it is.

[Solis]

Threadjacking happens.

[Hortmage]

Over on the FreeFall forum, we use this little device to measure topic drift:




Other comics have had problems with wandering threads...

[Pat The Fox]

How does that thing work?