 |
Planetfurry BBS
Forums for Planetfurry Site Members and more
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Do you think France is trying to destroy the UN? |
| yes |
|
80% |
[ 16 ] |
| no |
|
20% |
[ 4 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 20 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Rava
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 5:15 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Dont get me wrong Concolor they're are exceptions. Unfortunitly I didnt meet enough of them to offset the "generalizatrion" effect.
Again I didnt hold it against the country I just had decided not to visit it again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rava
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well here is some new news on France, and Russia's culpable actions... Russia was in Iraq last week teaching the Iraqi's how to Jam US missle's (the reason one hit Iran) and the French have been selling Iraq long-range missles and nuclar technology.....
Is there anyway the world can hold them accountable? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hortmage
Registered User
Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 243
Location: Midwest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Elfen_Furry wrote: |
Shall I continue?
All cases where the populance of a nation went along with its leaders and for all the wrong reasons did things they believed were right. France is no different.
Now if you want to talk about individuals, I'll list one, but I can much more but the sake of breverity I wont:
Albert Einstien from 1935 Nazi Germany |
<sigh> I keep promising myself not to jump in on these political debates, and I keep breaking that promise....
As an American, are you proud that the US Government, in the 1800s, delivered blankets infected with smallpox to the Indians? Not only was that little bit of government-sponsored genocide not protested by the US citizens, it's been expunged from most school history books. Can't let the kiddies know that America ever might be on the WRONG side of things, now, can we?
How about rounding up Japanese Americans during WW2, and putting them in what amounted to concentration camps? As a society, should we all be damned because we didn't raise a hue and cry?
How about the atrocities Americans did in VietNam? As I recall, the people who DID stand up and protest were beaten, gassed, and jailed for excercising their freedom of speech.
I'm not going to spend more time trying to run down the US. I just wanted to point out that we do NOT live in a perfect society. Historically, and even in the modern era, our country's government has and is doing things that are morally and ethically questionable. Not only is it our right, as Americans, to speak up about these activities, it's our DUTY! Yet, if you scan through the various Forums and BBs on the 'net, anyone who isn't out waving a flag and proclaiming George Bush to be the best thing since buttered bread is having their loyalty questioned, being told to "Go back to Russia, or France..."
During the Nurrenburg (sp?) Trials after WW2, Nazi after Nazi was brought to the court to explain their inhuman actions. Their defense: "I was just following orders," was disallowed as a valid defense for the attrocities. Yet, when American soldiers refused to blow up friendly villages in VietNam, they were court martialed for insubordination.
America is no different than any other country on this planet. What's good for us, is good for other countries. What we expect of other countries, we should expect of ourselves.
I dislike war. I dislike killing. But I absolutely HATE hypocrisy.
Back to lurk mode....
_________________
Hortmage, the Magic Gardener
Making environmental education fun and MAGICAL! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elfen_Furry
Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2601
Location: NYC NY
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I did not list the US for personal reasons. True, the US is not angelic by any means- Being Puerto Rican, I should know better: Los Gritos de Mayo.
But as an American, comparing us to others, there is no comparisons: We dont enlist young men to blow themselves up to kill as many others as possible, or give small nations loans so they can default on them and we take over their economics, or sell weapons of mass destruction and bio-agents. Nor will we sell scientific devices for use in weapons development.
The US Gov't would allow companies under strict guidelines, to sell defense equipment to allies and developing countries.
As for Viet Nam- it was the French that started the whole ordeal that we got stuck with in rescuing them in 1959. What happened when we got stuck- is another matter. Becuase of the protests here, many GI's felt dejected and rejected- for if it wasn't for these GI's many laws that declared the age of 18 as an adult would not have been written. Before anyone starts denouncing Viet Nam- I advice all to go spend sometime with a Viet Nam Vet; I used to live next door to one for over 15 years, and we spent many times talking about the "good old days."
Also include any other Vets you may know, I have several friends who were at the Pursian Gulf War Crisis.
We dont have to agree. My point of view nobody else can have.
_________________
SHARKS In The Gene Pool South of Kosovo!
*CHOMP!* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elfen_Furry
Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2601
Location: NYC NY
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rava wrote: | Well here is some new news on France, and Russia's culpable actions... Russia was in Iraq last week teaching the Iraqi's how to Jam US missle's (the reason one hit Iran) and the French have been selling Iraq long-range missles and nuclar technology.....
Is there anyway the world can hold them accountable? |
"We" will, when its all over.
"Detante" is probably the only word that comes to my mind. Who here remembers those days?
Wouldn't the UN love to get a hold of this information? And I know just who to send it to... (yes, I got friends at the UN. Well, if I help ship computers to needy countries like Lithuania, I do need help with the shipping and distributions- And I know who just to send this info too...)
_________________
SHARKS In The Gene Pool South of Kosovo!
*CHOMP!* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The French can only master two moves and thats why they are not joining this war. The moves are Called "Raising-Hands in the air and running like apes" and "Bending over and Taking It". The French are so gay IMO. France could be taken over by Iraq so easily its not even funny. If North Korea came into this...I think we should all go after France first and then continue with the confilct of Nukes and other crap....Basically, France < Dog Crap. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaos Fox
Registered User
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 43
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That was me...i forgot to log In  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Concolor
Registered User
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 832
Location: South Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Elfen_Furry wrote: | | The US Gov't would allow companies under strict guidelines, to sell defense equipment to allies and developing countries. |
As a point of information, we did sell (or trade) some militarily sensitive equipment during the Clinton administration: ultra-high-speed centrifuges. These machines are the easiest and fastest way to separate fissionable materials from spent reactor fuel, and North Korea did not have the technology to build them. So we obliged them.
_________________
Oddly enough, my life is based on a true story. (Ashleigh Brilliant) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bearion
Registered User
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 278
Location: Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike Regan wrote: | You know the US could help the poor Iraqi military.
We could sell them computer weapons systems. |
Maybe we did... 
This was making the email rounds last month:
"So how do you know Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Colon Powell: "We kept the receipts"
And before someone flames me: no, it’s not a true quote. But… |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nameless
Site Owner
Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1368
Location: Vienna, Austria
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, time to get flamed again. 
Sure, the French are arrogant and any have any number of other unsavory habbits. 
But nobody beats Americans for arrogance. 
You may be right or not, but ...
If you say "We know what we do is right and anybody who disagrees is obviously an idiot and can go suck rocks", then you come across a triffle arrogant.
Reading these posts, I am powerfully reminded of a certain Conner van Trapp. 
_________________
I'm a nut, but there are those who appreciate me for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishburne
Administrator
Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Posts: 596
Location: Plano, Texas
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
OUCH!
Ok, yes we can be arrogant. as all nations can, when they truly believe what they are doing is right.
The French, as a nation, have a specific type of arrogance that is offensive to everyone BUT the French.
Heck even their government disdains the common people and are proud of it.
Ok, back to the UN bit. I still think their needs to be a shake-up of the highest sort in the UN, and make sure that the UN should do little more than provide humanitarian assistance. The current charter is convoluted and is not made for the 21st century. Obviously.
There! and Nameless did not get flamed even a little.
_________________
"Do not Taunt Happy Fun God" -Cthulhu |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rava
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nameless wrote: | But nobody beats Americans for arrogance.
|
Considering how many of the people on this are Americains that was a pretty bold statement to make without backing it up.
*RANT*
I am sick to death of listening to people moaning and complaining about how this is all the Americains fault. If France, Russia and China hadnt broken the law the US would NOT have had the intelligence to prove Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
You want to bitch about it, back up your statements. Otherwise you are just as bad as the rest of the countries of the world, who when in trouble take the money and aid the US offers and then turns around and condemes them for it or worse bites the hand that helped out.
Oh the US is so horrible... They are the main supplier of aid to the UN, they are the ones who like it or not are the only superpower in history to not take on a war for the sake of building an empire.
Sure they have dont their share of horrible things, including genocide. They at least learned from it and try to stop it now.
Like it or not the French gov't as well as Russia and China are criminals and thanks to their actions they gave a madman who has no problem using the weapons these idiots gave them against his own people and his neighbours. Considering how much he hates the US for limiting his ability to scare the hell out of everyone around him I'm surprised the nucular technology the French sold him isnt in the hands of Al-Quada..... Opps thats right.... The US found all that in Afganastain!
*end rant* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nameless
Site Owner
Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1368
Location: Vienna, Austria
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rava wrote: | | Nameless wrote: | | But nobody beats Americans for arrogance. |
Considering how many of the people on this are Americains that was a pretty bold statement to make without backing it up.
You want to bitch about it, back up your statements. ... |
You just did.
If you (the US) don't care what someone else thinks, then you are arrogant.
It does not make a lot of difference if you are right or not.
Maybe it technically makes a difference if you are powerful enough to get away with it.
From what I have seen in the news, the US does not have any solid proof that Iraq has WMD. There is some evidence, but no undeniable proof.
Maybe this is just standard diplomacy, but I think the US was not really honest about their plans. I'm quite sure that Prez. Bush decided sometime last Autumn (or even earlier) that he will remove Saddam. Playing along with the weapons inspections was only done because he needed time to get the troops into place anyway.
I don't have any problem with them removing Saddam, the world will be better off without him.
But the US approach is questionable and is causing a lot of anger directed at them. And unless they find a good way to pull this chestnut out of the fire, it will bring the Al-Quaida a lot of recruits.
Their uneven approach does not earn them any points either. There are lots of other bad dictators out there who really needed removing (North Korea, ...)
The fact that Iraq is an Islamic country and has a lot of oil may only be coincidence, but they don't help people like the US either.
And of course there is Israel. They have been in violation of UN resolutions for decades and the US still support them.
_________________
I'm a nut, but there are those who appreciate me for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rava
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nameless wrote: | | Rava wrote: | | Nameless wrote: | | But nobody beats Americans for arrogance. |
Considering how many of the people on this are Americains that was a pretty bold statement to make without backing it up.
You want to bitch about it, back up your statements. ... |
You just did. |
IM NOT AMERICAIN... Better find some real proof of that statement |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jbird
Forum Hatchetman
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 554
Location: Reloading.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And just what sort of damned proof do you want? Saddam launching on Tel Aviv? A Ricin attack on PSAB? Ebola on Incirlik?
As for Israel being in violation of UN resolutions... First off, I call infinite amount of bulls*it. Second, even if they are, I think that a populace that has been fighting for its survival for the past 8000 years deserves to be cut A LITTLE FREAKIN' SLACK.
Yeah, we're arrogant. And?
_________________
(00:40:05) nbz: you win at the motherf***ing internet O_O |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Donate
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
