Planetfurry BBS

[Elfen_Furry]

When Nasa designed the shuttle, it wanted a Cadillac. It instead built a Chevy.

The SR-71 and the Concorde both are over 30 years of age (or approaching it), and fly near space, at high mach speed... and are still flying today.

[Cateagle]

Folks, one other thing to remember here - the shuttle we have is the best that could be done with the money NASA at the time could get past William Proxmire. The original plans were for something better and more capable.

Cateagle

[Fishburne]

[Fishburne]

[anthony]

Greetings!

[quote="Fishburne
Remember, its the designs themselves that are that age. Not necessarily the airframes.

Specifically in the SR-71's case.
[/quote]

I once read that after they produced the SR-71 they broke the molds of major components. (No I can't remember why, but it fits the 'paranoia' setting of a certain agency)
If that's true, they only have the original sett and some spares...

Also, isn't it true that during takeoff, they run the shuttle's engines at up to 110% of rated capacity?

[Elfen_Furry]

[Elfen_Furry]

[Elfen_Furry]

Before Jumping to Conclusions, check the time stamp on this entry...

NASA had stated that if the tiles were loosen or damaged before launch, that there was no way for the crew to do repairs; thus Columbia was doomed from launch.

THIS IS SO WRONG!

Why?

National Geographic; Vol. 159, No3- March 1981
Page 325: Tile Trouble Shooting Class

Which states, that at least several astronaunt took a course in tile replacement, if and when upon inspection, a large gap or hole was found, the tiles were replaced with temporary ones to at least get them home. (Has photo of Astronaunt Richard Truly doing a simulated tile repair.)

Strangely, I remember hearing that the first shuttle flights having spare tiles with them, and astronauts routinely checked on them. Like anyone out for a drive, gets into a minor mishap, what does one do? Go out and inspect the vehicle, before deciding on what to do next. Chances were, if repairs could not be done then, then stay docked with the space station until the next shuttle went up with repair supplies, do repairs, and have both shuttles go down with one "behind the other" configuration where the first took up most of the heat for the second.

This worries me, since in the beginning, such contingencies were dealt with, and now it seems that the program is taking too many shortcuts to meet budget constraints.

Now, I'm P***'d, and am going to make some personal phone calls to some higher ups and become a thorn on their sides for a long time to come!

[Fishburne]

[Elfen_Furry]

[Cateagle]

The tooling was broken up in the mid-1960's ont eh order of SecDef McNamara to prevent it being used for buildign production F-12B interceptors. At this time, I know of only NASA"s birds flying still.

To the best of my knowledge, the tooling for the shuttle existed at Rockwell's Downey, CA plant into the mid-90's (it was right along Imperial Highway, in the open). Now that Boeing has bought Rockwell's aircraft and space operations and sold the Downey plant, I have no idea what happened to the tooling.

Personally, this engineer would still like to know how closely the status of the connections to the external tank were monitored. One of those not retracting and stowing properly could be the first problem, rather than a damaged tile.

Thoughtfully,
Cateagle

[anthony]

Greetings!

with the talk of more 'capable' designs I suddenly remembered a link...
http://www.deepcold.com

It doesn't really belong in this topic, but...

Curious fact...
When an airplane crashes and the blame can be traced to the company administrators, there's lawsuits everywhere, but...
When a space shuttle disintegrates due to administrative penny-pinching and general stupidity from the administrators, what happens then?
(I bet all the 7 signed a release form, aquitting the NASA staff from any resposibility)

N = Not
A = another
S = stupid
A = administrator![/url]

[Cateagle]

*G* I've seen that one, Anthony; got it bookmarked at home, even. Those interested in "mgith-have'beens" are also directed to http://www.up-ship.com

We ahd the inital step to a much more capable design in the DC-X, but as I mentioned earlier, that one fell afoul of politics and the NIH factor.

Cateagle
(who swears that of all the beaucracies he's worked with, NASA's the worst)

[Fishburne]

through a contact, I received some interesting info...
Remember, this is NOT public knowledge, nor should I disseminate it.

Contact me privately for a copy.

Know how NASA has said thatthey lost sensor readings from minute to minute prior to the loss of communications?

Sounds like it could be a few things. One, parts of the shuttle are affected by reenttry - basically burning, which affects how the onboard computers are reading the trajectory, causing the bird to make adjustments in AOA, to reduce drag.

Two, Wiring. Remember that the entire shuttle FLEET was grounded in '89 due to chafed wire bundles.

This is mil-spec wiring. basically the scariest stuff you can imagine for wiring. Polyimide wiring. Boeing did the wiring inspections then, on the 4 shuttles. 3000 "wiring discrepencies" were located. Now mind you, each orbiter has 200 MILES of wiring per airframe.

In order to do a COMPLETE inspection, the completed orbiter must be taken COMPLETELY down to its frame, and we all know that has not happened.

So. Wiring? or Launch Damage? or What?

[elMaxx]

Sorry to stick my nose here but...

Accidents happen... things go wrong... sometimes we can do something about it, sometimes, we act a bit too late... sending people to space is, well, rocket science after all... only the best people work on it, i don't know much about the subject, but as i told Fish, i work in an american company, and i know one thing, there is no limit too great, and every standard, is set HIGH. Working for americans is hard, not everyone can do it, and i suppose that NASA is no excepcion...

Mind you some facts about NASA: they beat the russians to the moon, first manned flight to space... first reusable vehicle ever... first space station... or hopefully in some years... thanks to NASA we have the internet, i can type to you from a remote place in the world, i have friends as far as Spain, Germany and beyond, i bet there where mistakes, grave accidents that happened just for this, i'll name one... V1 and V2 ring a bell? well, those where necessary to get up there, to make every dream come true... Apollo1, Apollo 13... Challenger... irreplaseable lives have been lost, i know, i'd hurt more if they where closer family members, if i knew them, but i hurt for them because they will never see what they became martirs for... they and us share something in comon, a dream, of being up there, floating, seeing the stars and planets and moons close and personal, of course going to space is dangerous, but NASA made it possible, these astronauts made it possible, and it hurts when i see people that can actually go to a rocket launch, shake a scientist hand and tell them how their work is improving their world for the better, actually loosing their faith in this great crusade... i don't know if i'll ever whitness a shuttle launch... or landing... but i know some folks that can, and can help NASA be better than before, don't loose your faith, don't make the hope and dreams go away, keep the space program... and beat the chinese by getting to mars dammit!

I saw this once in zzstudios.com, printed it and stick it to my cubicle wall... take it for the better:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort withoug error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt
Citizenship in a Republic, speech delivered at Sorbonne, Paris
April 23, 1910

PS: even if knowing that going to space was a one way ticket... i'd do it without a second thought.