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Nachter
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Aslaug
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Gentofte, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latrans, no string of threads is ever considered "dead" on this forum, at least as long as it deals with a relevant issue or a story. At best, they are in torpor Very Happy

Go ahead and dig up old posts ... who knows, you might get a few people involved, myself included. I've longed for someone to get really active with the posting again. Helps kick some life into things.
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Nameless
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1368
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, ok, I'm a bit unsure of what terms to use, but...

I don't think that the terran government does not actually practice a "lack of religion". Just the oposite, they do have a religion of sorts.

If I remember correctly, you (Aslaug) said on this forum a while ago, that the opposite of "belief" was not "disbelief", but "knowledge". Using that logic...

As far as I know, science can't prove the existence of God (one, several or a nearly infinite number of gods). But neither can science disprove his existence.
So, the opposite of "belive in god" is "not know if he exists or not". If you believe that he doesn't exist, then that is a belief in itself (or call it a religion).

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Aslaug
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Gentofte, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be glad you're in Austria or I'd probably kiss you, Nameless.

You're still bang on the money. The whole point of this is hypocrisy. It should be evident early on in the story, and true to form, you've just spotted the problem right from the word go. This is not an oversight in the story, this is not me mistakingly going overboard with the "enlightened non-religion" thing ... it's genuinely a big part of the point, that the government has taken their active stance against any kind of belief to such an extreme that it has become pseudo-religious in and of itself.
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Nameless
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Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll gladly accept the kiss, even if it's only virtual Wink

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that life is basically paradox.
Everything kind is kind of on a circle (or a sphere, if you need more directions you can move in). When you start out from a point, you get further away, but if you don't stop, you eventually end up right where you started.

Things like politics: A far left (communist) government has a lot more in common with a far right (nazi) government than either has in common with a democracy.

Freedom is a really interesting topic for this as well. If everybody can do whatever he/she wants, then you usually end up with a few (or even only one) who can actually do what they want while everybody else has to toe the line or suffer...

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bastion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 4 of Nachter is up...
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Frazikar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At last, a shower to wind down and take stock...

to reflect on life's reality...

and that, finally, one has time to just enjoy...
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Nameless
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much in the way of answers, just new questions.

I've had that feeling for a while before, but now it's pretty much obvious, there's something really rotten on the TUG. I've no idea if the government is corrupt, simply incompetent or something else, but...

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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only say that more and more hints will appear, and that by the end of the story, you should have a fairly good idea of just what is wrong.

I am, however, -really- pleased that this story has been received so well.
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Latrans
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012
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Location: The quiet place with the matresses on the walls.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aslaug, my apologies for being so quiet, but I, too, have been really enjoying this story. I haven't posted much because anything I've had to say was already covered ("those who fight monsters" etc.).

Now, getting back to our Epileptic Trees

As for the TUG being rotten, it's possible. It's also possible that they're simply doing the best they can under the circumstances granted. Our only real suggestion to this effect is that there's a LOT more to the disappearance of the Götterdämmerung than is made public. Of course, information control concerning major events like that is fairly standard practice even today so it's not surprising that the average person wouldn't know certain things.

However, I do have some 'food for thought' ideas. First up, Officer Baja seemed surprised by a suggestion of time. It's quite possible that time doesn't work inside the ship the same way it does in the 'real world'. Everything is just as it was when the ship was launched, wet paint, food stuffs, uniforms, and all.

Changing gears, what if the Upload is failing somehow? Maybe it's running out of processing power and/or storage space. This would pose a truly MASSIVE issue for the TUG since it would mean some really unhappy people. There are, of course, some issues with this. Most prominently is that when people get Uploaded they can still communicate with those who are still alive. If this feedback were to stop (failing upload), it would become very obvious very fast. Processing power is more likely than storage space, however as the rebel forces are able to store their Upload, but don't have the processing power to activate it.

Next up is a much more ominous possibility. What if the Upload were corrupt? It is the first instance of mental immortality and it's possible some 'oddities' might surface. We know the living population has to go through regular sanity screenings, but does the Upload have to do the same? Maybe it's sane by any testable standards, but has reached an 'us and them' point, sort of a 'lords and commons' view. Lords of the medieval world depended on the commoners to provide for them, but that didn't stop the lords from treating them amazingly poorly some times. "Power corrupts" and the Upload has been given more power than any other ruling body in the history of humanity.

Now, lets get back towards the rebels and their upload. You have proof of an afterlife. You've seen it. You've talked to the dead. The only way you're going to get there is by... having fewer kids than you'd like. Not many people would give that up just to have some kids. It's not just likely, but probable that the rebels have completed their own Upload. This would put them on a much more even footing with the TUG. This information would also be devastating to TUG morale. A major point for the war is that the rebels need to be 'saved'. Win the war so that they can have access to the Upload again. However, if the rebels already have a working Upload, there's much less reason to fight. It's quite possible that upper levels of the TUG know about an operational rebel Upload but have heavily squashed any knowledge of it to maintain their power.

Lastly is something outside the technological. Those three theories all have nothing to do with the Götterdämmerung. Officer Baja stated "I guess that's what you would have been told. That the wormdrive failed and that we were lost. It's only partially true." What if, in launching the Götterdämmerung, the Upload had managed to prove the existence of a soul. Prove that when we die we actually *do* go somewhere? The Upload itself may have suppressed this knowledge out of fear that it had suddenly become obsolete. This both ties in with my second theory of the Upload being corrupt and a possible explanation for what happened to the Götterdämmerung.
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bastion
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The newest chapter of Nachter is now up...
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Frazikar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and after a shower, a meal ...

(boy, questions that generate more questions, don't they??)
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Latrans
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squeeee!!!!! *scampers off to read*
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Nameless
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are getting REALLY weird.

I'd like a bit more clarification on exactly how the crew of the Götterdämmerung looks.

As best as I can tell from your description, their clothes look normal (opaque), their body works normal (needs food, ...) but looks like a hologram (you only see the "skin" and only the parts you would see normally, but transparent).

The problem I have with this is that I can't really think of any "normal" (not deliberately manipulated) way to get this result.

If their flesh (and bones) simply turned transparent, then they should look more like a biology model (you should be able to see their bones and innards and such).

Apparently the "transparency" only affects living beings. What about the parts of the body that aren't "alive" (the outer layer of the skin and the hair is AFAIK not really alive). What happens to parts that have been cut off (e.g. cut hair)? How do the insides of a body look (e.g. when you cut them open during surgery)?

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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is supposed to be weird.

Looks-wise, the crew looks like glass. Very pure glass, which ... when you look through it ... distorts the light ever so slightly. The strange thing is that their eyes are just these empty holes into blackness and if they show their teeth, it's like someone lit up a christmas tree in the room. It doesn't work that way if they are seen from behind, for example.

It is, I believe, explained in slightly more detail later on during a conversation with a medic, but I can't remember for sure. However, the idea is for them to unnatural in appearance. They are not meant to be explainable and they do not follow the laws of nature as we know them. There is more coming on what is going on, of course, and in fact the next chapter is going to involve some big reveals.
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Nameless
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they look like glass, do you also see the back side (of their head, for example)?
What about hair? Actual "hair" (not a single one, but a full head (or beard) of it) made of glass would not really be see-through, because the light would be reflected and refracted so often it gets all mixed up.
What about their shadows? Can they do optic tricks with their flesh (e.g. use it as a lens)?
Do you see the inside of their clothes? E.g. if a larger person looks at the face of a smaller one, she should see the inside of the smaller person't undershirt, ...

It's perfectly ok if there is no explanation for the phenomen (given in the story) and it doesn't have to respect the laws of nature as we know them.
But it should HAVE an explanation and it SHOULD (must, really) obey (be a result of) the laws of nature as they apply in your story universe. If it doesn't, then it's just flashy FX.

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