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Osama Bin Laden Is No More.
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Cookie
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy Fox Stone wrote:
And now the Real Story behind Osama's burial at sea...

http://www.thebigshow.com/video_day/videoNew.php


LOOOOOL LOOOOOL Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Cookie
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrincessB wrote:
Albert Einstein
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.


When one stops questioning, be that as big as the government or as small as 'who didn't replace the toilet paper roll' then they stop thinking and begin merely taking up space in our already over crowded world.


Since back in 2007 the Prime Minister of Pakistan stated that she personally knew the person who had killed Osama it makes total sense to question what all went on just recently. Someone is not telling the truth and since none of us were personally there, none of us can know who is lying so we should be asking for proof from the man that very much controls our lives.


THANK. YOU. AMBI.

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Tommy Fox Stone
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cookie wrote:
Tommy Fox Stone wrote:
And now the Real Story behind Osama's burial at sea...

http://www.thebigshow.com/video_day/videoNew.php


LOOOOOL LOOOOOL Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Glad you liked it... Laughing

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Aslaug
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not the one who brought the current president into this, Cookie. You did.

I had written a long, long response, but deleted it almost immediately, since frankly, I was getting angry.

I still am.

And consequently, I'm withdrawing from this. I'm not going to sink down to that level. I almost did, in fact I did go there by posting my original response. Fortunately, I thought better of it in moments.

But I think the very fact that Obama's name was brought up in this debate, says everything about what this is really all about. It has nothing to do with Osama bin Laden's death. And I will not dignify that line of argumentation with any further responses.
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Cookie
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aslaug wrote:
I am not the one who brought the current president into this, Cookie. You did.

I had written a long, long response, but deleted it almost immediately, since frankly, I was getting angry.

I still am.

And consequently, I'm withdrawing from this. I'm not going to sink down to that level. I almost did, in fact I did go there by posting my original response. Fortunately, I thought better of it in moments.

But I think the very fact that Obama's name was brought up in this debate, says everything about what this is really all about. It has nothing to do with Osama bin Laden's death. And I will not dignify that line of argumentation with any further responses.


YOU'RE ANGRY!?

How about the fact that I was bombarded as a moron for questioning the story for the sake of making sure they were the facts?

I wanted proof because I don't trust the government. And what really bites my ass about some of you people is how you were all on my side when Bush was president, but now that the mighty liberal God has set foot in office I am suddenly always friggin' wrong!

I've been accused of being a right wing nut here at PF for disagreeing with Obama, I've been belittled and accused of being a conspiracy theorist, and I have had to deal with loads of Democrat hypocrisy on this very forum. On TOP of being practically ignored unless somebody wants to tell me how wrong I am, and getting chewed out by an admin for saying the same things that somebody else was getting away with!

All of this and YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S ANGRY?

I'm getting sick and tired of allowing myself to get taken for granted around this place! My opinions should be taken just as seriously as yours. Not dismissed as being "illogical" or "silly".

I'm TIRED of it! I am not Planetfurry's freaking punching bag!

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Pickles
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that video you posted Tommy!

Also, I agree that this was turned into something that it wasn't by multiple people, and no one put their foot in the way to stop the rolling.

We all have opinions. Not everyone likes Obama, not everyone likes anyone. Not everyone agrees with his decisions, and there are MANY people who say he's a liar and hasn't followed through.

He's a politician, stop expecting miracles. He's human, stop expecting miracles.

I don't like or dislike the man, as I have never met him. Some of the things he says and does I disagree with and some things I agree with.

Cookie and Aslaug both have the right to speak (or rather, type) their minds, and they have every right to disagree, but this was blown extremely out of proportion.


Quote:

Indisputable proof does not exist. All someone has to do is say "I dispute it" and the idea of something being beyond contestation goes down the drain.

The man, as far as I am concerned, is dead. Claiming he has been killed, if in fact he remains alive, would be complete political suicide. One Al Qaeda video recording of Osama bin Laden, saying "they said they killed me on *insert date* in Abbotabad, but they were lying. I am still here" and the entire government would be discredited beyond repair.

Frankly, Cookie, while I like you in general, this smacks a little of you wanting to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.


If they showed you video footage of the man being shot, or the photos of his corpse, I somehow doubt that would count as "indisputable proof" to you. After all, all someone would have to say is "That's not Osama, but one of his body-doubles" or "that photo has been doctored" and then it would not longer be indisputable, now would it?

Your opinion counts, but apparently, logical arguments don't seem to affect you in this case, and therefore, you can't expect the rest of us to agree with you.


Quote:
All I wanted was some proof. Is it so bad that I thought it might be to our benefit to question the validity?

Well bravo, you've humiliated me again PF. How dare I question anything while Obama is in office? Stupid me.


The text shown in green here is an example of the type of thing that makes these lively discussions into arguments.

Had those specific lines not been typed (and I'm sure I could highlight more from earlier in the thread but I copied those out of what was in the reply scroll window), then those statements would not have been taken personally.

Cookie and everyone else here has a right to question anything they want to question. .

But I digress, as I hope to get this back on track:

Many valid points about Osama being dead were made in this thread, and that is the kind of thing that makes for good conversation but that still does not change the fact that there is nothing more than 'circumstantial evidence' regarding the fact. At least not available to the public. How many courts would accept circumstantial evidence from you in a murder trial? (without a damn good lawyer.)

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Howellfan
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy, folks. There's far worse to put up with from folks out there. ( This is a furry forum, after all - we should have some practice at it. Razz )

Cookie, PrincessB: Though YES, skeptical consideration of government claims( or any claim ) in and of themselves is sensible - indeed, rest at the very heart of science and sound reason - one must acknowledge the converse as well; A claim does not become less likely then reason and record would otherwise suggest, merely because the government agrees. Doubt - from Moon landings to Kennedy - can become a leap of faith to itself. Truth?

*Thinks* Evidence - what further evidence would constitute a sufficient proof, Cookie? Photographs? There were fakes circulating online before Obama left the podium. Photos are nothing in this day. Independent DNA verification? Blood can come from the living. Tissue? How much? From What part - if we're really putting no limits on how far the government would go to pull the con. Failing that, did the second opinion remain independent? How would we know?

I would respectfully argue rejecting these proofs, themselves, require lesser leaps of faith than rejecting what's already on the record - regardless of government statements on the matter.

Now, I find the argument Osama was already long dead... - less difficult. His last video may well be a fake( Al'Queda's as easily as us ), and we do know that even when Obama gave the go-ahead, there was apparent uncertainty it was, in fact, Osama in the compound. If it's true the account of unfolding events was relayed to Obama and staff as it unfolded, we need only claim the narrator and/or at least a few 'select' members of the strike force( minimum scenarrio ), and likely at least a small, independent group within the CIA, as 'in' guys. Nor is Al'Queda's subsequent confirmation, after the raid, a great difficulty. Small, rogue, and very, very professional - that's a conspirracy I can entertain -

- but, absent falsifiability, and already having a straightforward account that adequately explains the facts of record, I'll more-or-less accept the 'official' account for the time being, irregardless of my faith( or lack thereof )in government. Nothing personnal, Cookie - Einstein couldn't beat that logic( Quantum Mechanics' 'spooky action at a distance' )!
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Tommy Fox Stone
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pickles wrote:
I like that video you posted Tommy!


I'm glad you liked it Pickkles, it is funny as hell... Laughing

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