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Questions about Lazyness at least.

 
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Tsunari
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Joined: 09 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Questions about Lazyness at least. Reply with quote

[ 1.
Tsunari says:
September 14, 2010 at 4:57 pm

If we have a question for you, is it better to use the forums or here on a particular story?]

[ 2.
Derek says:
September 14, 2010 at 7:13 pm

Either works fine. If I were to define a preferenceÖ I think the forumís better for discussions.]

[ 3.
Tsunari says:
September 15, 2010 at 4:03 am

Well 1) It was implied that people went to Valtrax for their culture. And that sometimes you had natives who were lazy. Then what if their lazy because they dislike the Valtraxian culture and would be happier in another one.

2) Im blind to what was going on, what holes in galatic theories that you could park galaxies in? Im really clueless what you meant in that comment.]
*


[ Derek says:
September 15, 2010 at 12:08 pm
1.

If you donít like the city you live in, youíre absolutely free to move to another one. Same thing applies on a planetary scale. You donít like your rock, go see what else is out there. Also, the issue of Ďlazinessí requires a little further clarification, as Tariís still confused about it as well. Sheíll probably ask Jadyn, since heís been out and about in the time Alecha and the others havenít been.
2.

That comment was meant in regards to the underpinnings, rules, structure, etc that I try to follow as these chapters come together. No rules that are specifically named in-story, but rather, the Ďrulebookí that constrains what can or cannot happen. The rules have been rather loosely defined for some time based on whatís been published; theyíre now coming into a more structured form so that future installments donít directly contradict whatís come out already. (At least, not as much as they might have previously.)

A lot of it I wonít go into a lot of detail yet, because it pertains to certain events and other issues that arenít yet completed.

To say it in metaphor: It may be nice to take a drive on a country road to see the scenery, but the scenery doesnít matter if you drive off an unfinished bridge into a river and drown. Smile Itís not that Iím writing tons of stuff in the other direction, as with your concern on the forum; I also have to make sure the road is stable as we go.

Can continue this on the forum if youíd like - itís definitely a better place for discussions, as I mentioned above.]

Lol. you locked comments there to force me to come here. then again in regards to what im asking i dont care about a group discussion.

a) Worlds dont nurture everyone. A person could feel trapped and hopeless about it, not have the means to go to a different rock. Are you free to move to move to China if you want? England? Germany? It takes a lot of money and resources and you might break down or have stress or any number of things. Especially if you hate the place your in. So do they find this persons root cause is they hate valtrax society so much, and are unable to leave on their own. What then, arrange for them to enter a military or basic job on another planet after getting them a one way ticket? (As an aside that might make an interesting idea for a story about a survivor, one who is genetically valtrax but no longer a part of that society).

b) As to galatic law, im going to IM you a bit on that when we both have free time.
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Frazikar
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget, folks can, just as easily, misinterpret the 'rulebook' as well...
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Tsunari
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now Im confused by that. *shrugs*
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typhoon
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions about Lazyness at least. Reply with quote

Tsunari wrote:
Lol. you locked comments there to force me to come here. then again in regards to what im asking i dont care about a group discussion.


Noticed that too. Wanted to reply to Jays last post and went 'What happened to the Reply area?' But Hey, Group discussions are fun Smile I don't want to log into the forum over the day so I can only reply during evenings - I don't trust that network available over the day ...

Tsunari wrote:

a) Worlds dont nurture everyone. A person could feel trapped and hopeless about it, not have the means to go to a different rock. Are you free to move to move to China if you want? England? Germany?

Maybe, unlikely, probably no. Unless you bring enough money or have a skill that is in demand which makes you welcome *almost* anywhere. For a given definitions of enough (Look at Dubai) when it comes to money.The country you live in may not like that of course but there are advantages of living in a free country. But if you're a lazy bum after leeching off a society your contry may like to see you go but who'd like to see you coming in?

Btw: Before the German wall was built a lot of people moved from east to west - the wall was build among other things to stop that. BUT quite a few willingly went the other way ... hard to understand in hindsight but some really believed in it ...

Tsunari wrote:

It takes a lot of money and resources and you might break down or have stress or any number of things. Especially if you hate the place your in. So do they find this persons root cause is they hate valtrax society so much, and are unable to leave on their own. What then, arrange for them to enter a military or basic job on another planet after getting them a one way ticket? (As an aside that might make an interesting idea for a story about a survivor, one who is genetically valtrax but no longer a part of that society).


Interesting thought. What do we do about people who refuse to do any work to earn money? Plenty of those around and plenty of ways to survive come to think of it - can't even remember lat time I walked trough the city without _someone_ trying to beg money off me. And I'm damn sure I don't look rich. It's just not a very comfy life for the most part. And things like homeless people sleeping under bridges happen even in societies where the 'social net' is supposed to prevent it.

But how will Val'Traxans handle that? Default is if anyone needs food you give him some and know he'll do something to actually earn it. If he doesn't ... well, what then?


Tsunari wrote:

b) As to galatic law, im going to IM you a bit on that when we both have free time.


I think there may be a misunderstanding. I think it's more like little guidelines and rules when it comes to writing so something he puts into TF doesn't completely demolish something he plans for PS. Example (And I just came up with this ...)

I think the Serin - while little more then a largish shuttle - is quite capable to utterly destroy anything in a sphere roughly the size of mars orbit.

That's not much of a problem unless they ever need something to go boom in a very big and spectacular way and a plot revolves around them trying to come up with ways to do that.

Little things - things that may be a good idea at some point that are plain cool or maybe just plot-convenient at the time of writing - may completely demolish future plotlines in the same setting. It's not much of a problem in an isolated story but a big one in a large universe meant to host a lot of them.

All it takes is a little nitpick like me or anyone else who had to deal with Roleplayers trying to abuse the rules to their advantage to point it out. If they could do X in Y why don't they do X now to just solve the whole damn problem and punch out for a beer or something?
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Tsunari
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and thats why i hate the rules and such so much. You get nitpickers who complain too much, and you may even restrict what you can do now because of future events. Of course if its too blatent it sucks. but story writing and inconsistencies are just fine. Doctor Who has lots of inconsistencies.
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typhoon
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tsunari wrote:
and thats why i hate the rules and such so much. You get nitpickers who complain too much, and you may even restrict what you can do now because of future events. Of course if its too blatent it sucks. but story writing and inconsistencies are just fine. Doctor Who has lots of inconsistencies.


The rules? I don't think any actual rules were mentioned. And I'm a Roleplayer / DM. I need rules to keep my players in check because if an NPC can blow up a room full of goons using only his Zippo my players will want to do that too and carry bags full of lighters. It has a lot to do with fairness. Since I _like_ to make things up as I go along too I have to be extremely careful not to spontaneously invent something that will royally nip me in the butt two hours later. I can't just flip back a few pages and delete a paragraph ... (Yes it happened before. Several days of careful planning essentially wasted because of an unfortunate modification a few hours earlier)

Of course it needs a balance and it's probably a good idea not to actually spell out those rules. Makes it easier to bend them. But it helps to be aware of them if only to keep yourself from contradicting yourself.
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Tsunari
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Writing isnt roleplaying though. Of course now i wonder if ill get a response from jaydn on my question to him after the discussion grows to a bunch of replies.
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typhoon
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tsunari wrote:
Writing isnt roleplaying though.


Nope. There are a few parallels however. One Interesting thing that happens if I try to write a story is that I end up with characters that have totally different ideas of what to do and end up completely screwing up the plot.

Tsunari wrote:
Of course now i wonder if ill get a response from jaydn on my question to him after the discussion grows to a bunch of replies.


I'm sure he can pick them out - he seems to be pretty busy this week though.
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Tsunari
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, well one way to view it, Stephen King doesnt plot or have vast rules for his universe. as it was someone else who came up with a set of it so he could finish the last three books of his Dark Tower series.

Then there was Robert Jordan who had the whole thing planned out. tens of thousands of pages and knew the plot from start to end. even though he is dead and the last book hasnt been written yet.

Just go with the flow. Some people dont like that, and have to go back, others just go forward. Im curious whats it all about though.
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Jadyn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I locked that sticky post on the wordpress site because it was supposed to have been locked when I first put it up. Confused That particular frontpage post was meant mainly as a welcome notice and quick pointer to help folks find where they want to be. I was actually going to move the comments to the post right below it, but didn't get a chance yet.

On the bright side it did spawn an interesting discussion!

Typhoon wrote:
Btw: Before the German wall was built a lot of people moved from east to west - the wall was build among other things to stop that. BUT quite a few willingly went the other way ... hard to understand in hindsight but some really believed in it ...


When I went through middle- and high-school, there was always Social Studies bits about the wall and the people going from east to west; I honestly never heard once about west to east until this very moment. Wonder if any of those folks tried to run the wall from west-to-east after it was put up. I've only heard about the ones going the other way, trying to get out.

tsunari wrote:
What then, arrange for them to enter a military or basic job on another planet after getting them a one way ticket?


If someone wanted to leave that desperately... Yes. Val'Trax was on good terms with their local space faring alliance insofar as their social customs were generally ignored because of their value as a producer of starship hardware (computer and engine tech). As such it wouldn't be hard to make arrangements with that group and find either a civilian position for such an individual, or get them enrolled in the Academy for a career in the Galactic Fleet itself.

Then of course there are those who didn't hate the place, but just wanted to see more of the universe's wonders - same thing. Help them find a way to do it. In both cases it still betters the society - while the one may just want to leave and never come back, he (or she) wouldn't be happy to stick around and that attitude is going to sour that of those around. Better to find a way to improve morale, most especially for the one most disgruntled because he feels 'stuck' there. And for the one with simple wanderlust... Eventually that one may come home too, and share what's been learned.

Quote:
As to galatic law


As typhoon so eloquently observed, it's not in-universe laws, but background for myself. I'm sorry if it caused undue confusion.

Temporarily changed work tasks this week from firewood bundler to roof-builder, with a quick pass of the 'on-site network technician' hat as well. Busy busy.

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typhoon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jadyn wrote:


On the bright side it did spawn an interesting discussion!


Always a good thing Smile

Jadyn wrote:

When I went through middle- and high-school, there was always Social Studies bits about the wall and the people going from east to west; I honestly never heard once about west to east until this very moment. Wonder if any of those folks tried to run the wall from west-to-east after it was put up. I've only heard about the ones going the other way, trying to get out.


Same here. I didn't learn about this until much later which probably shows just how much simple omissions of facts in school can shape ones perception of the world. Anyway, the reason I mentioned this was to show the decision of where one belongs depends on a lot of factors and given a choice people will make decisions that may be hard to understand to others.

Now with a population in the two digit billion range on the original planet there will have been a lot of local variation in culture but I'd expect certain principles to be fundamental. With the availability of space travel that shouldn't have been a problem either since malcontents had the opportunity to leave providing someone would take them in. I wonder if they considered those to be Val'Traxans or not. It hasn't been stated if they viewed it as cultural identity, a mere name for the species or possibly both. Those who deny their cultural identity (but remember the varity, it wasn't a planet of hats I hope) may be considered not Val'Traxan or something.

If they did consider it a cultural identity some might question whether Jadyn and Tari can still be considered a Val'Traxan or not. It'd also explain why even if the species survives around the original home world those survivors wouldn't be true Val'Traxans. There are too few to retain their cultural identity and a lot of them rejected it in the first place and left. If the 2000 make it that should teach them about putting all their eggs in one basket.

Jadyn wrote:

tsunari wrote:
What then, arrange for them to enter a military or basic job on another planet after getting them a one way ticket?


If someone wanted to leave that desperately... Yes. Val'Trax was on good terms with their local space faring alliance insofar as their social customs were generally ignored because of their value as a producer of starship hardware (computer and engine tech). As such it wouldn't be hard to make arrangements with that group and find either a civilian position for such an individual, or get them enrolled in the Academy for a career in the Galactic Fleet itself.


Of course if the root problem (if it is a problem, some may see that differently) is pure laziness as was initially asked - the person is unwilling to do anything for his or her own upkeep and relies on society to provide - the person will be in for a surprise or just plain unwelcome. In our world a lot of immigration policies are based around the idea of the immigrant proving he will be a useful addition. Like already having a job or something.

Our societies have a range of ways to deal with those problems and depending on where you live those can be pretty harsh. Defining it as a mental disability is an interesting variation. At last they get something to eat which is in some cases more then we do.

Jadyn wrote:


Temporarily changed work tasks this week from firewood bundler to roof-builder, with a quick pass of the 'on-site network technician' hat as well. Busy busy.


I hope that wasn't your roof.
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Tsunari
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might not be possible. Of course then we leave people the choice of then your just messed up and evil. And start to get into situations such as terrorism. Desperation at society can come in many forms. Lazyness, terrorism. The shut in problem japan experiences. Young people reach the point that they cant take the way society is anymore so just hide away forever.
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dsquare1111
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Lazyness at least. Reply with quote

OK, This story has my attention. I have seen not other feedback on it.
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Jadyn
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pretty sluggish on updates due to a varying collection of reasons, but I am still working on it. Glad it's got your attention. :)
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