Planetfurry BBS

[Concolor]

[Kristie_Kitty]

Me, I was raised to be catholic methodist, but in my early teens, I went stray from the church. I still am a spiritual person, but I find myself without any type of religion to place myself with, but the closest thing I can compare my spiritual beliefs is Buddhism, even though the rest of my family are Christians one way or another.

I respect other people wishes in the spiritual beliefs, and turn a death ear to those who are overstepping their bonds in their a tempt to perswade others to their own personal views. And it is very difficult when one of your own family is like that, I do have a cousin and her husband that try and get me to go to their church or make me feel guilty for not having the same beliefs as they do. But on the other hand, my older sister and her husband are born again christians, but respect my own wishes in my own personal belief and that I am greatful for.

So in the end, theres always a good and bad side of each subject or in this case religious belief, we are imperfect because we are mortal.

[tobi3B]

Well I’m a Christian and I practice shamanism.

I respect and tolerate everyone’s believes and I had many interesting conversation about the subject in the past.
I heard once 3 Sentence that stuck in my head ever since.

1. The almighty tore his great book into pieces on the seventh day. Wherever a paper of his book touched the earth there blossomed a new religion.
2. People build churches/temple to keep other things out and not to invite them.
3. Choose your believe and stick to it but never force anybody to thing your way.

[Nicolai Borovskaya]

First, I must state that I am not a Christian.

I spent more than twenty years actively looking for a faith (religion, if you prefer) that I was comfortable with. I investigated every branch and twig of Christianity I could find, and all of them were empty, to one degree or another, for me. If you want a very different take on Christianity, take a look at the Coptics. I also looked many other places, some of which were, and are, more than a little obscure.

What I finally found was Wicca. I have wandered away from my initial teacher and his specific beliefs, but I have found a place where I am comfortable, and happy. It is uniquely my own. As I believe all beliefs are. We each see the world through a unique and individual set of blinders. Even those who attend the same church will have different interpretations of the truth, albeit in small ways in that case.

As far as this thread goes, here is my take on the subject:

All gods are real to those who believe in them.

I can expand on that thought, if any are interested, at another time. I'm late for work. I will finish this post first, though.

The other pertinent tenet of my belief is that your right to proselytize ends at my ears. I'm happy where I am and I have no interest in changing. So don't try. Every fur is entitled to their own beliefs, but that does not entitle them to try to change the beliefs of others. The statement "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" is appropriate here, even if it is out of context.

Doing good, living the good life, depends on your definition of such. In the end, that is a concept that is entirely self-serving, regardless of the effect it has on the world around us. There are many, immoral in my lights, whose belief boils down to "what's good for me" and absolutely nothing else. For example, those who perform hostile takeovers of companies. Or professional thieves, who believe we exist only to provide them loot. And so forth.

There are cultures, and languages, where the concept of, and word for, 'stranger' are the same as for 'enemy'. Where those two ideas, different for us, are identical for them. Are we to condemn those cultures for their beliefs? Or do we have to become other than strangers and thus their friends, if they will allow us to do this?

There are many places for a discussion like this to go. I, like many others, just hope that the trip remains peaceful.

Nicolai

[aryeon]

i`m a spiritual person and i believe that every one can have his or her own faith.

but when i look around in the world i have to say, is there a god any way around here.

all i see are wars in the name of god, be it christian or muslim.
and bove these beliefs say that they are a peace full faith.

if this is so why can`t the christian faith and muslim faith, or any other religion for that matter, life side by side with out hate for each other.

and if there is a god why dos he let the maniacs haijeck him for ther own power games.
why dos he not destroy them out right as proof that god is a peace full being.

so you see i believe there is more in this univers than whe know.
but it is us that pull the strings of desteny. not some god, whe are the one`s soul responsible for the happynes and missery that is hapening in this world.

so peace brothers and sisters let us verget hate and anger and hug or cuddle this world to peace and not fight it to pices.

[Iron_Raptor]

I think the discussion of religion and spirituality is... pointless. People will follow what is most comfortable for them, and that's pretty much it. You can enlighten people, but you cannot change who they worship or the way they worship.

What does matter, is what you do. What kind of difference are you going to make in the world today? Are you going to merely spin religious rhetoric, or will you actually go out and do what your good book teaches?

I think the "Be Like Jesus" mantra works well, without "Becoming Jesus". The simple kindness to people, the continuance of kindness despite peoples' transgressions against you, the willingness to forgive.

Things that I think we all agree are excellent points to base one's life off of.

[WhiteStorm]

[Syrius]

[Howellfan]

Allow me to submit for consideration, though, that contrary to our intuition, a God of vengeance may be not only compatible, but even necessary to a religion of peace. Consider the argument of Yale Theologian Miroslav Volf, who writes:

"If God were notangry ant injustice and deception and did not make a final end to violence - that God would not be worthy of worship...The only means of prohibiting all recourse to violence by ourselves is to insist that violence is legitimate only when it comes from God...My thesis that the practice of non-violence requires a belief in divine vengeance will be unpopular with many...in the West...[But] it takes the quiet of a suburban home for the birth of the thesis that human non-violence [results from a belief in] God's refusal to judge. In a Sun-scorched land, soaked in the blood of the innocent, it will invariably die...[with] other pleasantries of the liberal mind."

In other words, try giving a million displaced, victimized and raped Sudanese acting purely on their own self-determined truth a gun and then telling them 'violence never solves anything, now.'

Something to think about.[/i]

[Sigurd Volsung]

To summarize a bit from my favorite book Starship Troopers violence is the power from which all authority is derived. If the Gods do not themselves punish evil doers then man must do it for them. People say that if it were all eye for an eye than the world would go blind, then you have to make sure You and yours are the ones with the armor. As I said I worship gods of war, I have no problem with the notion of vengeance. I have made it clear to several people that there are a few individuals that if I meet I will not hesitate a second to kill because of the wrong they inflicted on a loved one, and I have friends who will help hide the bodies or make it appear to have been a suicide since they too know the wrong.

Myself I would prefer to die in a fight then any straw death (dying of old age or any other undignified death). I have my reasons for not being in the military one of the main reasons being that I wouldn't pass the psych. evaluation, but that doesn't mean that I don't live by the sword.

[PrincessB]

Anyone else read the part in the Bible where Jesus became very angry at the greedy merchants in the temple and forcefully kicked them out?

Yeah God gets angry, He gets angry at injustice and sin, if He didn't then there would be no real need for His return. He returns to put a stop to all the "nonsence".

[Syrius]

[Sigurd Volsung]

I'm not talking about theft of a car where the punishment should be the confiscation of material possessions (in that case that would be eye for an eye). I'm talking about where the crime is theft of a persons dignity (i.e. RAPE! and that is the crime of which I speak) or the killing of another person. If I was to kill a rapist and their family was to come seeking justice against me themselves I will not hesitate to take them on as well. If people are willing to stand up for some one sick enough to rape another than they are no better than the rapist themselves.

When it comes to an accident, there is no crime UNLESS there is criminal neglegence. If, for example, my child (I am yet to be a dad but hope to be one soon) was killed by a car because they ran out between parked cars chasing a ball into the street, I would be very saddened but I would not seek vengeance since it was an accident and only that. But if on the other paw my child was to be hit at night by a car where the driver was drunk, I would since driving drunk is not an accident it is a choice. By that same token if some one is killed during a high speed pursuit some people blame the police for the chase, when the fault lies strictly with the fleeing driver. Serial killers and rapists have been caught because they fled when all the cop wanted to do was tell them their tail light was out. When someone flees from the police they have made a decision that their lives are more important than anyone else's in the area and they no longer care who gets hurt. Some police have an attack on conscience if they have to kill someone in the line of duty even if the outcome was they themselves would have been killed. Others see the situation for what it really was, they were the ones who wanted to go home the most.

If it will make things clearer here is my list of crimes that I would like to be made into capital offenses: Premeditated Murder (it many states it already is though very rarely is the death sentence given), Man Slaughter through criminal neglect (this would include driving while intoxicated), Rape (this is my big one), and Kidnapping. If a dog has rabies we put it down because it is dangerous, any person sick enough to commit these crimes deserves the same treatment.

[Aslaug]

This is an extremely hazardous thread, but I'll add my two cents nonetheless...

I'm not Christian, and I am not quiet about it. I worship the gods of my ancestors, and I expect to continue to do so until the day I die.

However, I believe religion is first and foremost a private matter. Missionary work in any form is anathema to those of my faith. We're quite simply not allowed to. It's our belief that if a person is to find their way to the Gods, they have to find that way themselves.

That being said, I also consider it a serious violation to try to tell others what the 'right faith' is. In my opinion, no human being can rightfully claim to be closer to the truth about divinity than any other, and I have had a lot of very harsh debates with a number of Christians and Muslims who tried to show me 'the error of my ways' and 'save' me. That kind of behavior is enough for me to terminate a good, functioning friendship. I have, however, also had many fruitful and positive talks about faith with both Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and others. It is not for me to decide what others believe in, and I am willing to listen to the personal impression of others, when it comes to religion.

What religion gives each of us is individual. Sometimes, what it gives us is best experienced alone, sometimes with a few likeminded people and sometimes in a larger congregation, but it is still a matter of personal experience in the end. Those who do not believe apparently find their form of comfort in this lack of faith, and as far as I am concerned, they are more than welcome to live their lives that way. It is, in my opinion, no better than how I live, nor any worse. It is not my right to judge anyone right or wrong, or even to suggest they may be right or wrong, when it comes to belief.

[Lucius_Vane]

I was born into a christian family, but about the age of 15 I really began to examine questions that I had really had for a long time. At first it was mainly just the question of how if their was a god and that it had handed it's word to the world, I questioned why there were different interpretations of it, let alone other religions. If it was the word of god, wouldn't that fact be self evident? Next I moved on to examining the text itself. It's amazing the number of clashing stories, extreme changes of personality and acts of downright barbarity there are.

A few years later I had made the full transition to atheist. I reasoned, I've never seen even the slightest shred of evidence for a god. Simply taking it on faith would be foolish. And even if I should die and find out that despite all evidence to the contrary that there is a god, well... how did Milton put it?

"Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."

Especially when the diety is so far from my own personal aesthetics.

Since then, I've examined other major religions, at the moment, I've got a copy of the Koran I want to read through, I've studied philosophy (both religious and athieist) and read the works of a number of prominent writters on the subject. I certainly don't consider myself an expert on the matter, but I find it frightning that I know more about their religions then the lay worshiper.

I've come to a few conclusions on my own, whether they're right or not is still to be determined-

-Everything can be explained. There is no supernatural, anything that appears to be is natural, simply something that we have yet to understand.

-There is no need for a god. We have the tools in our hands to be anything we want, do anything we want and live any way we choose. We also have the ability to decide which way to live is the good way. (For those who think we need a god if only because he created everything, where did he come from? If something had to be created from nothing, rather than a god or multiple gods, why not the universe?)

-Good and evil are objective, right and wrong are subjective. What is right and wrong is something to be determined on a personal basis, whether on your own or on a societal level. However good can be defined as anything that is done for the betterment of society (whether you gain anything or not) while evil is that which is done for the benefit of the self (whether society gains anything or not.) In this regard, we have to disassociate good from right and evil from wrong. They can be paired up in any way, depending on the situation.

There's my two cents.